chassis safty

[sandaddict]

Amazing, the other thread turned into a flusher unfortunately. I dont think that was the place for, thats why I started this one, but no real action? Maybe they got it out of there systems already?

I said basically the same thing as many have stated in the other thread. A couple braces or gussets in most cars can really change the strenght of them and be the difference.

Sandaddict: With the pictures you posted of your car, it appears to be one of the best I ve seen. Its so good that via picture it s hard to tell. I think the occupants pictured would survive a similar incident that spurred this lok into saftey. You have good head room, so if there is failure it has some room still. Im guessing that the people pictured ae all sub 6 ft'ers? They just appear lower in the seat then some. I think the shoulder harness should be raised few inches, but its one of the best I ve seen , and should be measured in person to tell for sure. One reason it may be ok is that the occupants maybe on the shorter side. I d raise them as high as possible for them , and that would make it even safe when a larger person rides with you.

I think over all the chassis is very good, lots of head room, front and rear, good bracing etc. Id ad small 45 braces at the top of the a,bc pillars, one to add strenght and two because I think it could be done with out taking away anything from the car, due to it goodhead room already etc. I d x brace the roof, I cant really tell if its done forsure, or atleast put a lid on it. Some dont like the limited vision on a hill with a lid, you can just do the center, then use clear or tinted lexan/plastic on the sides to still have some vision out the roof for siting on steep hills.

Basically the car is so good it would need to be seen in person to really tear it appart. Try to pick out a bad seat belt mount, etc.... if you run at night, the light you see with is important, you have some of that handled, but being seen is right up there as well. leds, around the car let us all know where your at. nice one.

Thank You very much for your advice. We have considered the x bracing on the roof. My husband was wondering, there is a bar in the middle of the roof would you x brace both sides? We have a led whip right now. We still need more lighting but it was a push to get it ready for halloween so we just didn't play at night. We are putting side panels and a roof also. Again Thank You

The bar on the roof crosses the B pillars would you x both sides. Would you use 1" tubing for the 45 gussets and how long

Edited November 2, 2006 by sandaddict

[EY3BA11]

With the bar in the middle going from side to side i would just make it

----- A Pillar cross bar

.\

. \

----- B Pillar cross bar

.\

. \

----- C Cross bar over the rear of the cage.

or something to that effect

[1320]

on the 45 gussetsI would make them as long as possible, but that depends on how big the possible passengers are. Ussually around 6-8 inches and 1 inch di is fine. You may be able to go slightly longer since it appears that head room would not be the issue. Once you put a lid on it they will double as a grab handle for entry and exit also.

Since there is a middle bar I d x both sides in 1 or 1.25. and tab em so what ever lid you put on wont rattle.

[raptoroy]

on the 45 gussetsI would make them as long as possible, but that depends on how big the possible passengers are. Ussually around 6-8 inches and 1 inch di is fine. You may be able to go slightly longer since it appears that head room would not be the issue. Once you put a lid on it they will double as a grab handle for entry and exit also.

Since there is a middle bar I d x both sides in 1 or 1.25. and tab em so what ever lid you put on wont rattle.

thanks alot for the input i"ll ad some bracing this is what the site should be about fellow duners helping each other thanks again

[ntrsandman]

Thanks to input on this thread and recent events, I have inspected and plan on adding bracing and gussets to my rail, & relocating the seatbelt mounts. (needed to move mounts anyway) I hope everyone inspects their rails anyway for loose bolts, lug nuts, etc regularly. Good info from 1320.

[OGP]

The unfortunate crash that killed two did spur this post. I ve made posts in the past though with little or even no comments. I wonder if safety is low on the list or if everyone thnks they are safe? I build cages, race cars for a living. 99% of all sand rails are unsafe in some way. I went halloween weekend with an old chenworth car. In my camp it was by far FAR the safest car. One was a virtually brand new long travel ls1 car too. My wife took a ride in the ls1 car (as have I in the past) and as I followed on my quad all I could think about was "what if" what if they have an incident. They dont need to be going fast or anything to have a small mistake cause a major incident. I wanted my wife out of that car.

The car in the crash......has several build problems and design problems that caused the injuries. I dont know how far they fell (30 ft or so according to the story) but I think it should have been completely survivable essecially if they inpacted in sand. Just because it has some bars on top doesnt make it safe. That car was unsafe, or unfinished. No cage should deform like that even if dropped from 30 ft straight up. Its job is to keep its integrity. The belts absorb the inpact with the chassis external to the occupant compartment. The car in the pictures...........1$ in steal could have changed everything. Very very sad.

Plan to go over, plan to go over and over and over.

Just a note, the last time out the chenworth car I drove was tumbled 5 times, its been over numerous other times in the sand and in the desert. The 5 rolls it took at dumont last time out, didnt even break a bulb. I had to fix a light housing, and straighten a couple others, but it drove away just fine, with no chassis problems at all.

If you own a rail and do not have experience or othyer knowledge regarding the design and planning of safety features in your car , get someone who does. Most cars I see have several common theme problems, like the car in the crash. Basically a good car with a few small things either done wrong or not done at all.

Even if you take it easy, pan for the worst case , the drunk guy that stole his uncles v8 car and is about to hit you at 75 mph.......or land on top of you, or push you over on a hill for a 30 roll tumble to the bottom. Plan for that guy, cause he is out there.

PLEASE SHOW US A PICTURE OF THE CAGES AND RACE CARS YOU BUILD. WE ARE ALL CURIOUS WHAT YOUR PERFECT STUFF LOOKS LIKE!!!!!

[OGP]

i dunno about that guys car structurly, i know it bugs me when they dont have a side pillar.

andrew buck before breaking his back was jumping 70 to 80 feet in his cars and 20 to 30 feet high. i witnessed the rollover pictured below. it was end over end and 1 full rollover sideways damage, 1 broken light, 2 broken flags, and 1 ego. we rolled it over and duned all weekend. Saftey is a big deal with me i'm running 600 horsepower to the rear wheels per westech chassi dyno mira loma cal. thats dyno jet not corrected. i was sold on eyeball for a few reasons strength being one of them.

q: should we discuss this ?? in lew of what happened

A: in my opinion ABSOFUKNLUTELY im sure if anything that man that was running that buggy would want others to know what happened and why and if it could be prevented. It is normal , healthy , and prudent that we discus these matters. Were fathers sons and duners i dont want to see anyone hurt. and if discussing this lets JUST ONE PERSON at minimum look at saftey issues when building or buying a buggy. and make a solid choice then we have done well.

To criticise the deceased! no way! inexcuseable . to comment on the structure of the car.Well thats just plain smart. to be concerned to ask " can it be prevented" could it have been survivable wouldnt any of you want to know ?? i do .

I believe when god says "its time" your done. and its likely the upside down drop was to much. i would like to know how far it flew.for meerly reasons of structural questions regarding saftey

i type this with respect to the departed and there family and i hope they understand its from a preventive stand point that i look at the structural issues

regards

Bob Cox

ID LOVE TO MEET YOU OVER AT COMP AND RACE YA. I WANNA SEE WHAT MY CAR CAN DO COMPARED TO A HIGH HORSEPOWER V8

[trqjnky]

BWAHAHAHAAH PIMP!!!! quit picking on the poor v8 low rpm limit guys.

[1320]

TOP, why do you think my stuff s perfect? I highly suggest you reread, carefully this time. I didnt say or even imply my stuff is perfect. Why try to make such a childish attack when the only topic here is safety?

If someone comes up to me and says hey do you know that having your belts mounted like that will compress your spine? Ill say.....really? can you explain why cause I sure as hell dont want that to happen.

This isnt a mines bigger then yours contest, racing to prove something? Im happy when I leave with fond memories and no pain.

600 hp v8's yea I call them daily drivers. 10.620 @129 two weeks ago stock internal 99 camaro street car. I race on flat ground with christmas tree and a finish line.

[Don29palms]

600 hp v8's yea I call them daily drivers. 10.620 @129 two weeks ago stock internal 99 camaro street car. I race on flat ground with christmas tree and a finish line.

If that's not 1/8 mile times I'm calling BS. And I don't care what you say I'm calling BS on a 10 second stock internal 99 street legal Camaro. NO EFFIN WAY!

I also would like to see pictures of your buggy?

[HarleyR]

Auctually its pretty common to see stock internal LSX motors dip into the 10's and heads an cam cars go 9's theres a timeslip database on LS1 Tech.com that can back all of it up... the days of camel hump heads and a holley double pumper are over....People who dont really get into the LSX motors dont realize what the heads are capable of and what a simple cam swap can do...

As far as the saftey goes for cars I cant even see a peice of roll bar padding in any pictures I know it dosent look cool but it can save your a$$... and im not talking about Home Depot pipe insulation but rather SFI cert BSCI padding...If people want to know how to do certian things like mount seats and belts they can look in magazines like Speedway Illistrated or circle track they have tons of write ups geared for local racers to do things right... I guess maybe im just kind of a saftey nut from working in racing...

[Don29palms]

A rollcage on a sandrail SHOULD NOT be close enough to you head to be hitting it with your seat belt on. I am presuming the interior of a race car is pretty tight. That would justify the extra padding. Sandrails in general are not put to the extremes of a desert car or most other RACING type vehicles. And I still am calling :yeah_whatever: on the 10 second street legal '99 Camaro. 600hp isn't enough to do mid 10s in that big of a car. IT'S NOT POSSIBLE in a street legal vehicle.

Edited November 5, 2006 by Don29palms

[ntrsandman]

This site seems to have a more detailed "correct" harness install instructions.

http://www.gforce.com/pdf/harnessinstall.pdf

I appreciate any input that is safety related. Especially from someone who has experience at frame/cage fabrication, and races as well. I took my buggy's "cage" as safe. I did know the seat belt mounts behind the seats were incorrect. I now know different about the "cage". I will add some reinforcements and relocate the harness mounts before next trip.

[1320]

A rollcage on a sandrail SHOULD NOT be close enough to you head to be hitting it with your seat belt on. I am presuming the interior of a race car is pretty tight. That would justify the extra padding. Sandrails in general are not put to the extremes of a desert car or most other RACING type vehicles. And I still am calling on the 10 second street legal '99 Camaro. 600hp isn't enough to do mid 10s in that big of a car. IT'S NOT POSSIBLE in a street legal vehicle.

um, yea .....what are you doing weds night? Actually the car I quoted, is sitting in my shop right now. It has about 80k miles on the oem 346 ls1. It has a z06 cam, 3.00 rear gears in a 9 inch , runs on a 28x10.5 tire at the track. It has the back seat removed and runs on welds at the trrack. It makes more then 600 rwhp also. It also runs one of my turbo systems that I build, it has a gt76 turbo, intercooler and runs 60 lb injectors with tuning by me. On weds Ill be trying to get another car into the 9's . That car has already been 10.54 and runs 2.75 gears and is a T top ss with full leather on the stock 17 inch ss wheels.. Remeber we are at 2200 ft also with a DA ussually around 4000-5500 ft. Now is the "good" season as the DA may be sub 3000 ft.

I can probably find some videos still of one going 11.1 or so on the net. That was awhile ago.

I found some pics, the dark blue one is a SS that has a completely stock engine, all the way to the airbox still, it goes low 11's @122-123, the light blue one is the 99 that went 10.62, the red one went 10.54, and the white TTA is mine and it went 10.88 on the stock engine (lc2 obviously)

Edited November 6, 2006 by dunefreak

[SandBox_Kid]

Auctually its pretty common to see stock internal LSX motors dip into the 10's and heads an cam cars go 9's theres a timeslip database on LS1 Tech.com that can back all of it up... the days of camel hump heads and a holley double pumper are over....People who dont really get into the LSX motors dont realize what the heads are capable of and what a simple cam swap can do...

As far as the saftey goes for cars I cant even see a peice of roll bar padding in any pictures I know it dosent look cool but it can save your a$$... and im not talking about Home Depot pipe insulation but rather SFI cert BSCI padding...If people want to know how to do certian things like mount seats and belts they can look in magazines like Speedway Illistrated or circle track they have tons of write ups geared for local racers to do things right... I guess maybe im just kind of a saftey nut from working in racing...

Look a little harder HarleyR......I'm not too cool to run with roll bar padding:

[HarleyR]

Its good to see... theres other things that can get hurt in an accident besides your melon... you dont have time to think about your arms or legs.. theres just so many possabilities for stuff to go wrong... And your right about the interior being tight but NASCAR makes us put padding in places the driver could never reach bettr better sorry than safe....

[SandBox_Kid]

Its good to see... theres other things that can get hurt in an accident besides your melon... you dont have time to think about your arms or legs.. theres just so many possabilities for stuff to go wrong... And your right about the interior being tight but NASCAR makes us put padding in places the driver could never reach bettr better sorry than safe....

I've seen a clip of Johnny Benson getting his neck stretched out in a wreck. It's amazing how far that sucker stretches.

[HarleyR]

Crazy stuff happens... while I was out in Vegas working for a team we had a hit at Dover Deleware that was over 49 G's... needless to say we threw that one away...

[DeToXiC1]

I think that ALL cars (sand) should be SCORE Inspected for safty weather or not the car is for fun or racing

this car ma be heavy but it safe with 1.75" 120 wall main frame and has a score certification

[HarleyR]

1.750 .120 wall that tank tough we run 1.750 0.83 for our car chassis its DOM I belive it should be up to the builders to adopt some sort of cert process to make sure a roll cage is nothing more than a fancy light bar or sun shade...

[sanddunesaddict]

um, yea .....what are you doing weds night? Actually the car I quoted, is sitting in my shop right now. It has about 80k miles on the oem 346 ls1. It has a z06 cam, 3.00 rear gears in a 9 inch , runs on a 28x10.5 tire at the track. It has the back seat removed and runs on welds at the trrack. It makes more then 600 rwhp also. It also runs one of my turbo systems that I build, it has a gt76 turbo, intercooler and runs 60 lb injectors with tuning by me. On weds Ill be trying to get another car into the 9's . That car has already been 10.54 and runs 2.75 gears and is a T top ss with full leather on the stock 17 inch ss wheels.. Remeber we are at 2200 ft also with a DA ussually around 4000-5500 ft. Now is the "good" season as the DA may be sub 3000 ft.

I can probably find some videos still of one going 11.1 or so on the net. That was awhile ago.

I found some pics, the dark blue one is a SS that has a completely stock engine, all the way to the airbox still, it goes low 11's @122-123, the light blue one is the 99 that went 10.62, the red one went 10.54, and the white TTA is mine and it went 10.88 on the stock engine (lc2 obviously)

You ever want to sell the 89 Trans AM???

[sanddunesaddict]

Guess thats a no huh John??