1320

polaris, scrambler 500 here. Its dead reliable, and it gets used by everyone. Pretty much a protistute, everyone uses it for just a couple minutes, when they have too, then get off to ride something else. LOL

becareful, most 98 dodges are 24 valves, and the first ones seem to have on going vp44 pump problems.....ongoing like every 40-60k miles. I think. They made the early 98 with the 12 valve though also. Thats what I have. Its teh white unicorn of dodges. If its a quad cab, it was the first year of the rear doors opening, and you got the 98-02 dash, but still got the unstopable 12 valve engine. The 12 valve is very easy to work on, and very easy to turn up a bit.

Ask about the kdp or killer dowel pin, the 5th gear nut....and if its had wheel bearings done and the carrier bearing.

i just don't understand what your point is...in this topic...?

okay we get it...most cars are not safe....so what do you propose we do about it?

whats your goal here?

This started as a topic regarding capm safety and people try to get others to act in a manner that is safer. I stated that safty should start with yourself first then worry about the other guy. I also said that 99.9 % of the rails (even on this site) are unsafe , as an example. Pete, challenged that statement, thats when it went pretty sideways. I m glad you agree with me.

What do we do about it? I dont know, but a good start would be , not being defensive, not making blanket insulting statements with no support.

Whats my goal here? Id like to see fewer rip threads, or I laid out there for 3 hrs with a broken back.

So far, I m told I have pos sammy that is unsafe, I ve pratically begged for them to come over and pick it apart, but I have received no pm. I even offered to show in person the problem I saw.

You said...

.Post up a pic of that samurai you have Jon. Let me pic that thing apart!

I dont know, that seems to be a personal attack, since you asked the question, wtf are you talking about? Everyone on this site has safe equipment etc etc..

I thought I said I was already in a bad collision in my car and the harnesses DID their job? Maybe it wasn't hard enough.

So how far above your shoulders do the belts need to be mounted to be "certified" as safe?

Generally, most inspectors, sanctioning bodies, from offroad to f1, to nascar to nhra use the at shoulder level (ie 90 degrees to the top of teh should, to 45 degrees above.

No I'm not trying to compare my stuff to yours. You questioned the safety of most cars on this site and I argued the fact because I know that is false. Sorry, that Sammy cage still just doesn't look safe to me.

And I asked you to please show me.....please come over and pick it apart....I even asked for a pm...(I didnt get one). The funny part is I dont think you ve even seen it other then in the beggining. The funny part is that you would call it unsafe and get in your car.......You car that probably goes 5x times faster on average, and uses the same or smaller tubing with 5 times less structural integrity. Id be very comfortable if you jumped you car off a dune and landed on me......but youd probably die if my sammy landed on your rail. Luckly it has a very very low chance of getting air born for any reason. The down side is that there are plenty of bigger cars that you probably even dune with and near that would really hurt you.

I have seen many sandrail wrecks and many of these cars these days come out just fine as well as the occupants. You seem to have a real thing for arguing saftey. What car IS safe out at the dunes? Is a certified trophy truck safe in your opinion? Or are we only talking about SEAT BELTS here?

:?:

What is safe.......well, the only reason I argue it is because it is such a collosal JOKE. Instead of just being unsafe, a lot of cars are purposely built unsafe. Id rather see a guy duning with no belt versus one that isnt in correctly, and he thinks it is. At least the guy with no belt, knows he has no belt on.

Is a trophy truck safe.....they are probably among the best in the world, probably why the weight 6000 lbs.

Again, you think my sammy cage is unsafe.....please come over and show me why........not just do me disservice of saying thats unsafe. Please tell me, show me why. I didnt just yell your car is unsafe. I can see that there is no rear bar, at shoulder level, I can see that the belts go down since I know your not 4 ft 2 inches in hieght. If you were, it would probably be just fine. I then gave you the reason why its unsafe, (the belt shortens on decelertion if mounted to low causing you to need to become shorter), then I gave examples of how to tell if its to low, and cited the "ussual" or most common design of install that is acceptable (90 degrees to the shoulder to 45 degrees above). I think I covered it adiquatly, but also in me very first post state it was easier to show in person.

The responce was, well, lets see your stuff..........if Im not mistaken, the condition of my stuff, has no bearing on weather yours is correct. For your information though, I do have two sets of belts in two of the sammy seats, one for adults and one for kids just for the reasons above. I also have what has been descibed by others as an extensive cage, that is far over done. I dont agree, I put the most valuble things in my life in it so I want it to keep them as safe as possible, when it might be hit by a sandrail, and pushed over 10 times rolling down a hill. Or when a quad or dirt bike rider is jumping without and effective spotter and lands on me.....(they would be hard pressed to even get a small peice in like a wheel or tire).

Im not worried to much about what the driver of teh sammy can get into, it simple wont go fast enough for that kind of trouble, but I do have to worry about 70 mph sandrails that weigh 4400 lbs.

The problem is that people dont want to hear, that something is wrong with there toy. Id rather have a bar added, and have the powder coat not match the paint match peerfectly and be safer then lay on backboard because of it on my way to umc in a helicopter.

Sorry I dont know how to break my remarks out of your quote.....you can do it if you like, it would be easier to understand.

BTW, to instantly turn the topic around using what I think would be discribed as a red herring falacy is sign of either poor debating skills, or a week argument. If you guys would please tell me why you wont get shorter if you stop fast.....then the argument is over. The shoulder belt isnt there to hold you down in the seat, the lap belt does that. The should belt is there to hold you from going forward. If you get in you car and you tighten your shoulder belt, and they pull down on your shoulders.......they are wrong. You should be able to tighten them as much as possible with virtually no discomfort or pulling down on your shoulders.

Yes, please post up the pics of your ultra safe nhra,ihra,world of outlaw, nascar certified POS sammy you got.

it may be a pos, that was the point, was to not spend 14k on a pos, but spend as little as possible. You can come over too if you like. Judging by the picture of your badass ride, you ll only get about 6 inches shorter, with your shoulder belts mounted down there. You hopefully will never need them, that would be great, but you put them on because you might, and it would be great if they did what they were suppose to instead of hurt you.

Would you be pissed if we accidentally hit each other, and I walked away from my pos, and you never walked again? Actually I d probably bang up my knees in the dash, Im a big guy......that brings up a good point, and is a supporting factor for removing the hood and adding some more support to the frame.

Ofcourse the outcome might be the other way, hopefully neither of us ever get tested, but life happens.

You asked......and I offered to show you in person.....You may have been fine, and they may be mounted securily, but it doesnt change the fact that they are mounted too low. When you are in a resonable deceleration your shoulder belt shortens, and your shoulder is above the mounting point, so you will get shorter. As for my sammy, why dont you come over and look at it, and Ill show you what I m talking about. The sammy is probably capable of getting the occupants through most concievable accidents, which may include a 4000 lb sandrail doing a wheelie onto it and pushing it over many times. Pleas epm, and you can come over and pick it apart as much as you want, I ll gladly accept knowledgable input, but judging by the personal atacking nature of your responces I m guessing most of the people here dont want to hear anything other then , oh itll only be 6 8 months of pain.

These cars are no different then any racing organization, and are regularely driven far worse in far worse conditions, but no one looks at them? And the majority of owners have no experience in knowing what is or isnt safe. Just because it has a belt doesnt mean its a safe belt.

Pete, its not a personal attack , you just asked a quetion.....wtf was I talking about, I answered....you want to make it, mine compared to yours....is not an issue in the topic. Its a you against averything question and how you survive. I dont agree with all racing associations rules, or abide by them even, but some are simple physics, and its fact that basically every motorsport association would laugh at virtually all sand cars, weather they be 1000$ or 250 k $......they would still laugh.

Shoot, probably half dont even use a 5 point harness.....a lot use 4 points.. Almost every car has the shoulder belts mounted too low (they should be at or above the should hieght) and any that have their belts routed through the seats, need to pull them and route them over. Unless they have a 5 year old that rides in that seat.

Of course wearing a helmet or neck collar is another issue, arm restraints, roll bar padding...chassis bracing, the list is pretty long of very basic stuff. Am I perfect....no, but that isnt the topic. I rarely wear the harness or the arm restraints in the sammy, (it has both) but I rarely wear all the gear. Sometimes I do, when I m out playing in precarious places, or in big crowds. When Im cruising the flats at low speeds (less the 20, or on low level dunes I do usssually have the lap belt on.....will it get me...maybe, maybe I should wear the restraints every trip regardless of speed. I dont ride my busa down the street with out a jacket, gloves, boots, helmet....

Will my belts cause a compression fracture....no. Wuill something else get me.....maybe, but Ill keep looking at "accidents" and the wreckage and try to plan for those things that I see fail. Thats the basic reason why my rail isnt one color, I wont paint it or powder coat it till I pretty sure I wont make any more changes to it, its getting close, but its not there yet.

ps....your shoulder belts are too low....really.

sorry, it posted twice...

WTF are you talking about Jon? Everyone I know on this site has very safe cars with safety equipment that is in great shape.

Its a fact that your own car will cause you injury in a minor accident due to the chassis design and the mount location of the shoulder belts. If you d like I d be glad to show you the problem. Its much easier to show in person. Most people do not want to hear that their car has a tragic design flaw, built by someone that apparently never raced in any organized racing association. The seat belt mounting in 99.9% of all rails wouldnt pass a 100 ft visual test by nascar, world of outlaws, nhra, ihra, etc, etc, etc, etc....

You can run a nascar or a 66 nova into a concrete barrier at 100 + mph and have the drivers walk away from massive carnage, but a sandrail into a pile of sand at a comparitively low speed results in compression spinal fractures? I see atleast 5 spinal injuries (compression fractures) posted on here a year regarding someones accident.....and thats just what gets posted on here from a friend of friend or a witness. Imagine how many happen?

So, Pete, do you think Im wrong? Or are you gonna tell every passenger that gets in your car that, your belts are mounted wrong that could cause them injury? Nearly every sandrail is the same, and considering the speeds at which rzr's go and rhinos, saftey is more a matter of luck rather then planned deterent.

I with all of you on all these subjects really. But why is that virtually everyone on this site drives cars that are unsafe, mostly having faulty safety equipment?

1. keep yourself safe

2. worry about others

The only isssue I've had with my kids is they need to be supervised, I got a ticket once for my kids riding in an area I couldn't see them from. I think the age was 15 and under... They could care less what the experience level of the rider is....

Just ride with your kids at all times and be responsable, They'll leave you alone...

Thats pretty funny , considering your boys could probably out ride most people, including the leo's.

I do have problems, occasionally with seeing kids out there unsupervized though. I had two near misses on sunday. The first was a rhino with 4 or 5 kids, that looked 10-14 years old. They came straight over the finger dune(jumping) with no spotter. If I had been even at the bottom of the finger dune, they would have hit me. The other was a quad on the flats that appeared lost......I think a girl that turned in traffic with out looking first. She just turned right in front of my rail then looked........Lucky for her I go pretty slow compared to most in the flats.

On the upside, my almost 6 year old daughter rides a 110 cc quad pretty well, ans we do exercises pretty much every trip, and at home. My still under 3 year boy is now riding the 50 cc quad. He started off just holding it wide open doing donuts..........after a couple hunderd tight circles, he started to stop when I said stop....then we worked on going slow.....(throttle control). After that he actually turned right once and was shocked he could make it go were he wanted. So then he was able to ride camp circles, and would turn to avoid objects. I let him run into a couple things that he coudnt hurt, and I was always 5 ft away running with him, with the remote in my hand. He almost got tossed two or three times.

If he could just talk now......

Last time I checked 65 ft was it for california, without a special permit. I pull a 50 ft enclosed with my dodge quad cab longbed. I am at 64 ft 9 inches last time I checked, and I may have added a couple inches on the front bumper. I have never been pulled over in California, and have been through most of the state many times. If my truck ever gets wrecked Ill have to find anothe quad cab, cause a four door or mega cab puts it way way over lenght.

I would guess the cgvw to be way over 26k also, thats not a problem, I had to get the nev non cdl class a. My license even says doubles/triples, even though I only tested with my single trailer due to the over 26k cgvw. I d bet the back up test would be pretty hard. The only reason I passed mine was due to the angle of the sun....lol.

My heavy, superlong 4 passenger 3.3 subie, is a gas mizer. 2/3 days, with enough driving to make your arms sore, from steering and Ill use 20-25 gallons. With the quads, and samurai, I fill them all up, and take 25-40 gallons.

I know a guy with a two passenger v8 car, runs good on the hill, and he ll take a 55 gallon drum of race gas and use it all in three days. I probably dune three times more then he does too. Its actually his biggest complaint. Between his rail and motorhome hell spend 500$ for thurs night to sunday and thats pulling an open car trailer behind his motorhome. I pull a 50 ft enclosed with my cummins, with two cars and 5 quads inside, and I use 20-25 gallons in th etruck round trip and then 25-40 in gas in the toys. My total fuel bill is half of his at the worst and I ussually leave with gas still in the jugs.

I m not a believer in oils.....but after two seperate slipping transmission experiements(not listed below)......I only have one word....

AMSOIL. it negated the slipping transmissions problems and both are still going , one slipped for 1 year plus, and that was 3 years ago. I couldnt even drive the car hard in second with out it slipping, and since the change its been raced plenty of times.

Now in any severe duty application.....like...

my nv5600 (twin turbo cummins that puills 30k)

600rwhp vette with t56

800 rwhp th400 turbo camaro

samurai that drives in low range at the dunes all day

rail....

all get the good stuff.

I spent nearly 200$ yesterday at amsoil for tranny fliud. That will do a couple cars, but its od, when I was looking up what I needed, I noticed a dedicated trans fliud for the allison with the dmax.....(it was the first on the page of auto trans fluids).

If you want Ill get you some for the cost.

I think technically its not legal, but it depends on the trailer lenght. Getting stopped? Probably a lot more likely by a chp on the way to dumont then anything else. You could probably drive for years with no lights on it and not get stopped. Id fix em, and add a few, to be visable.

Ive never done it before, but if you want, we could use a wideband o2 sensor on it....and compare to say my banshee. I have several widebands, I just never used one on a two stroke. I dont think it would hurt the sensor, but we would have to do some welding on the exhuast to put o2 bungs in. Id be curious. My banshee has been together for 10 years, and has always run great, and only been worked on one time. Dan cleaned the carbs last year for me......thats it.

5000 LB TRUCK VERSUS 1500 LB RAIL THATS WHAT HAPPENS.

1500 lb rail? Thats not a 2 passenger vw.......thats probably well north of 3000 lbs as a 4 pass desert car. Full of fuel and two passengers its probably atleast 3200....maybe more.

The truck might be more then 6k though too.

Thats very sad. It appears they cut the chassis apart to extracate the passenger? I hope so, anyways, cause the chassis should have held up better then that.

Mental note......always use atleast one 20$ flag.....and maybe mount the belts right too.

My wife started on a suz 250 sport...slow and undr owered for the dunes. Then I got a blaster. It had some work done and re geared ut for her. She likes it, but is now taking my banshee out every chance she gets.

For your wife, I would let her try our polaris 500 scrambler. Its full auto, sport, with 4 wheel drive on a switch. Reverse, electric start, etc.

We have the polaris for a spare/ rescue quad, for freinds to ride cause its so easy anyone can do it.

They are around 3000 used.

If you have aluminum on the plug, your tuning is in question? I would guess to lean, or not enough octane or both. The only other cause would be to tight on clearences, but that would be rare, and evident on start up.

The easy solution is see if you can talk Dan into looking at it..or err building it.

I love banshees.......

Last year at sema I talked with Bill Hahn for awhile about there piggy back. It looked like a way to go. They also do piggy backs for bikes (hayabusas which was the reason I first started talking to them.

Anyways, the hemis intake is straiht down, which allows to remove the upper intake and space it up. Hahn made a injector holder that fit inbetween the upper and lower intake with its own map and rpm based controller. For a turbo/ blower car it seemed like an affordable alternative. I havnt seen a laptop based program like hp tuners (ls based stuff). Hp tuners advertises it, but last I checked a few months ago it still wasnt available. The diablosport and hand held stuff, is a step, but not what I d really want to use. The hemi would be selling better if tuning and mods were easier/ cheaper.

The hahn stuff made getting enough fuel pretty easy, with 8 more injectors.

:chkn:

I dont think so buddy, I've never heard of a big block 427 getting anything over 20 mpg, anywhere!

A c5 (2002-2004)z06 has a ls6.....346 ci.....I never said anything about a 427 bigblock car. I have two big block vettes, a 65 396 and a 66 427 car. Your right, though, on their best day, if you baby them maybe 12 mpg on the road. Real life, averages around 8.

You right Bob, and I know exactly what you mean. I have kids too, so my 64 vette is going to barrett jackson in Jan in scottsdale, but I just bought a 62 chevy II for the back seat.

A stroker in an srt8 would be nice, and some FI of some kind. I wonder how long it will be before the engine management will be a real possibility? Dodge does a great job of keeping their stuff, theirs.

No idea.....mine was vin 'd in az by the az dmv and has a az title. I would bet that az is alot easier then cali though. I had a car that was owned by the state od CA, and they wouldnt give me the title in NV. They would only release the CA title after I brought it back to CA for a vin check and safty check......After all the running around with them, they eventually lost the paper work. A nice lady called after a threating letter with documented copies of everything I already did, she said sorry, the title is on its way, and we waved the title fee for you...lol

After months of bs....by then I was just happy I got what I needed.

I saw the drag package car run....low 12's in vegas and it was all 60ft. Tire and gear. 390 isnt bad.....but that means little, esspecially considering that some dynojets miss by 1000 hp....Great for tuning, but actual numbers.....lets see what the trap at. Still to heavy, just like the mustang, and the 2010 camaro.....atleast they are all equal pigs.

Still.....2009.....fuel injection, overdrive trans, light weight materials and they build a car that weighs 4000 lbs and gets 13 mpg?

No wonder detroit car makers are having a hard time. A nice used 3100 lb c5 zo6 sells for low 20's now and can pull down 20-24 in town and 28-32 on the road with the same performance or better at half the price, and still go around a corner.

you dont. the dmv will not reconize it. They will not even title quads, or out of state rails with existing vin numbers and titles.

If you steal a rail, the owner has little recourse, even if they find their rail. Other then a civil trial, at owners expense, the law provides no protection.