2nd or 3rd,i dont think so bro,my bike was like 3rd or 4th out of the 4 strokes and i didnt see a red Honda within 5 bikes of mine EVER. As far as stretched bikes every fast 4 stroke there was stock frames with longer swingarms. There were about 5 upper level 4 strokes and everything else i saw was in the pipe and cam type speed.