chris1223

i know huh! We were suprised to see a wild animal so comfortable around people. I guess there are so many people that come and go through that busy marina he is getting used to humans. Kinda sad.

Quite honestly I think we take animals for not being very smart to human ways...

Last year when I was deer hunting I was in a unit that surrounded a leg of private property that people were given the right of way to cross to get to the other side of the unit. Nine days and I finally saw and got a small little forked horn and was feeling lucky with that (Yes it was that bad). On that right of way there was a four point buck that would just hang out there and stare at trucks going back and forth - I have pics of him just looking at me just 30 yards from the boundary.... It’s like he knew

Spotted this little guy out at the Lake Mead Marina today. Although he kept his distance as we slowly approached him, seems as though he wasn't to scared of people. This coyote had quite a full coat on him. We started to wonder if it was just someone's dog but it wasn't- he was a wild coyote.

It was barley light enough to get some pics of him but I got a few.

Thats odd that they know they are not threatend there. When I have gone out to get them, they have a tatic to keep people busy looking from the front and one or two will come up to you from behind. They hunt you while you hunt them....

When I said sport I didn't necessarily mean high speed continuous mode or sequential. (That is the drive setting on that camera) I meant the sport setting which would be under the SCN settings. Those are the preset selectable settings for different conditions (in this case fast shutter). In that mode you can still adjust the white balance and exposure comp. When in sport mode, you can still select normal or continous mode for the drive, but for some reason it won't let you pick HI speed continous.

IC - Well the sequential thing works kewl, so Guess I need to get the timing thing down for the sport/better pics.

I know it is only a point-n-shoot...

Thanks, I understand the rebuilding now I didn't know rebuilding included valving and springs. I will call up TCS and try them out to save some $$, anything will be a significant improvement than what I have .

I have a Toyota Tacoma, it barely fits as it is, the bed width between wheel wells is 42in and the quad is actually 44in across the front tires(21x7x10), but it compresses the suspension to fit and barely squeezes in. I was going to try swapping front tires from our other z400, but it's sitting at 48in (22x8x10) so I don't think I can fit that one either. This is the 1st time I have measured across both bikes, 4in difference, no wonder his turns better and is less tippy! I'm assuming the extended arms add another 2 inches? I'll have to try fitting the 2nd z400 and see if it squeezes enough.

I couldn't find the specs on the Ranger bed dimensions or I'd have checked the difference myself.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help!

K. I see - I have to drive over the wheel well, but mine does fit in between the bed sides...

what about the spring preload? Is that on the softest setting too or are you just messing with the shock dials?

Most fronts, that’s all you can adjust is the spring load. If they have resi fronts, you can also do compression and maybe rebound.

The issue with the 700 Pete is that it’s made for a bigger (in Weight) rider then Chad is - He just doesn’t have the weight that the valving/spring is set for. It’s more set to the 200-250 pound rider, and he doesn’t seem like he weighs that much - So no matter how much he is able to adjust ride height with the spring, the valving/spring is still stiff. It probably feels like a couch to you because you weigh more and you fall in the intended range. (*Disclaimer)

FSC probably has the same issues - I just have never looked at the zuki - My bike sucks, but it’s what I have (Right Pauly)

*Disclaimer - Chris1234567890 does not size the participants of this list up, I was just looking at a pic with the two said participants in it together and they have very different physics<sp?>....

quote name='chris1223' date='Feb 20 2009, 07:35 PM' post='168789']

It’s not just about the spring and dialing them down to be soft - It’s about using the full travel of the suspension. There are allot of factors involved - i.e. riding style and environment. It’s about using the full compression of the shock, and not bottoming out with whatever you throw at it. You never want a shock to completely hit bottom, but at the same time you want to utilize all of the travel. Then the rebound - you don’t want the shock to rebound too fast and spring you over the bars, but you want it to rebound fast enough that you can have it back to the position to use the full travel on the next obstacle.

Thanks, I understand all of that, the problem is my suspension doesn't move much at all much less using the complete travel and there is absolutely no possibility of bottoming out. It is so stiff that even if I put all of my weight on the front bumper it barely moves even an inch and when I sit on it it doesn't move at all and that is with the shocks all the way soft. So I get bucked off on jumps or when hitting a transition wrong or too fast due to the shocks not compressing at all.

Yes - Rebuilding them will do the trick. When they rebuild them they are just reusing the body and the shaft. The valving and the spring is what changes. The valving is what controls the rate that the fluid can pass from one side of the piston to the other - So lighter valving in your case will allow fluid to pass with less resistence, allowing your weight to use the full travel of the shock. When you sit on the bike and it doesnt move that is too stiff of a spring. With that I am sure you can understand where each part comes in to play.

I am partial to TCS because they are a US company as opposed to Elka (Canada). In the past, Todd was the person you talk to when you called – Yes allot of the time you didn’t get ahold of him right away, but he does call back – Just call there and talk to him, he will explain to help you out. They both make a great product, but Elka will not rebuild a stock rear or front as far as I know. If it was me I would want to save a little cake by being able to rebuild the current items - but that is just me.

My concern with rebuilding my stock shocks is can they actually take a shock that is that stiff for me and make it light enough? Say taking a shock set for about 225-250lbs and making it set for 125-150lbs for example? Is making a hundred pound adjustment possible by rebuilding a stock shock?

Elka does not rebuild shocks, their rear is about $900, but I was thinking about Elka fronts and having TCS rebuild my rear to save a little $$.

Yes they will be able to change the operation of the shock and the spring as stated above - Its not the shock body/piston that controls the rates - its the valving/spring rates that you are concerend with. As far as 900 bones - That is steep. I think the pro edition with triple rate and sag control is around 500. As far as Elkas, I dont think they are bad shocks - I just feel that TCS can build a the same quaility for less and they are closer to us(California).

All in all you need to be able to talk to the builder and give him/her the input that pertains to YOUR preferences - Suspension is a bear to deal with, but when you get it right it’s really worth the effort. Talk to both builders and feel them out - Go with your gut feeling on who is going to give you what you want.

I talked to a guy from Elka and of course he says the new Dune Edition with just rebound and compression setting made to my weight would be my best option based on my riding style/terrain and complaints, didn't really ask him about the rear at the time.

I agree with him - The sand is very forgiving - So having the shock tuned to your weight will be huge. The other items are just a bonus

Also if I was going to spend that kind of cake, I would also go +2 on the arms and longer axle - Cheep addition to add a ton of stability. You will also be able to tweek the caster and camber also - another set of items that really help out.

Thought about that also, but I'm not so concerned with stability (I haven't rolled it, just been thrown off twice). I have tried out different tires to help with stability and cornering, that seems to work for me. Also extending the front end would make it not fit into my truck .

I have a ford ranger that I can stuff mine into - How wide is your bed? Let me know and I will mesure my bike and then you can see that it will probally fit. I thought the same thing, but it does work. The adjustments are also huge with those front ends and I think I paid 450.00ea for both sets that I got.

You will really notice the difference in the desert with all of these items - do a 60 mile prerun before and after and you will see the difference...

I don't ride desert or trails hardly ever at all, think I have been in the desert maybe twice in 3 years. 99.9% of my riding is sand dunes.

Thanks for your input, I think I will call the TCS people and talk to them. I guess if I spent the $$ on those and ended up not liking them enough I could put them on our other Z400 and go with something different since I wouldn't be able to make up any of the $ by selling them .

Well due it being so overcast that day, I would probably have bumped up the exposure and/ or changed the white balance setting to cloudy. This will give more light to your pics. Also, since the cars were jamming by pretty fast you would probably want it on the sport setting for a faster shutter speed (for less blur).

Make sure your qaulity is on fine instead of normal too. (menu/ image qaulity)

If you have any favorite ones that are just dark, but decent quality, I can adjust them for you if you want. Just post em up.

The sequntial shooting is a great option to have, but is that my problem? Can I have adjustments and that option also?

I know this is just a point-n-shoot, but I think the pics could have been better. There are a few that look great for that kind of camera, so I know it has some capabilities - I guess I just need to play with it...

I'm probably not going to do anything more until I get some more experience on the bike first. I'm looking forward for the next trip to Dumont so I can get the experience I'm looking for.

Chad - Download the service manual from raptor forums and play with it a bit - bring a pocket driver out to dumont and adjust your rebound/compression - You will see the difference riding along the flats to comp with just single clicks. The only thing you should do at home is the ride height - put all of your riding gear on and have someone mesure, then do the math.

Very cheep way to improve by far...

Chris..you seem knowledgable with suspension, maybe you can help me.

I have a Z400, my front and rear shocks have been adjusted to the softest they go and I don't weigh enough for there to be any sag in the suspension with me on the bike.

I have resi shocks, so I know I can get them all revalved at $200/shock, but I'm wondering can the stock shocks be revalved to any weight? They are sprung so high now that I'm not sure they can be made soft enough or would I have to get them revalved and get different springs etc??

This is the info I have come up with in my search on what to do .

Elka's are custom tuned to your weight. Most other shocks (Ishock/Works) are sold in 50lb increments with 150-200lbs being their lightest set-up. From their site 'Elka Suspension comes equipped with the exact spring rate to suit your weight. At Elka Suspension, we customize the valving so that the hydraulic resistance is optimal for each type of riding'.

I requested price quotes from TCS a few days ago on their shock conversions and their TCS and Elka pricing, I have yet to hear back from them.

Elka Dune Edition custom built shocks specifically engineered for the dunes and me for $940/front w/preload and compression adjustments and $895/rear w/preload, compression, rebound.

I'm thinking the rear is a little $$$, so I might go with Elka Dune Edition on the front and do a TCS custom conversion on the rear for $425 to total $1365. Full TCS custom conversions on stock shocks are about $1025 total.

http://www.atvsuspensiontech.com/tcs.htm

http://www.elkasuspension.com/products/suzuki-atv.html

Also TCS satisfaction revalve is free including shipping, but is good only for 30 days after delivery.

From their site 'Total Control Suspension guaranties your satisfaction with a 30 day re-valve guarantee. ATVSuspensionTech will back that up with a no questions asked shipping policy! If you need to ship your TCS Shocks back to be re-valved, within 30 day guarantee period, ATVSuspensionTech will pay for the shipping!'.

Elka has a follow up procedure and satisfaction guarantee, but it isn't specific.

Elka's turn around time is about 10days-2 weeks. With TCS you have to send yours (down time from riding) wait for them to be built then sent back to you, turn around time ???, or their shock exchange program for an extra $70 plus a $700 deposit to be refunded IF your shocks are to their liking...Don't know that is all worth the extra savings for a shock I have never seen on any bike and have heard no reviews for

I have actually ridden a couple bikes with Elkas and even set at a heavier weight they were a much nicer ride.

So has anyone actually used TCS??

oh yeah and I have enough seat time to know my issues are with shocks more then ability .

It’s not just about the spring and dialing them down to be soft - It’s about using the full travel of the suspension. There are allot of factors involved - i.e. riding style and environment. It’s about using the full compression of the shock, and not bottoming out with whatever you throw at it. You never want a shock to completely hit bottom, but at the same time you want to utilize all of the travel. Then the rebound - you don’t want the shock to rebound too fast and spring you over the bars, but you want it to rebound fast enough that you can have it back to the position to use the full travel on the next obstacle.

I am partial to TCS because they are a US company as opposed to Elka (Canada). In the past, Todd was the person you talk to when you called – Yes allot of the time you didn’t get ahold of him right away, but he does call back – Just call there and talk to him, he will explain to help you out. They both make a great product, but Elka will not rebuild a stock rear or front as far as I know. If it was me I would want to save a little cake by being able to rebuild the current items - but that is just me.

All in all you need to be able to talk to the builder and give him/her the input that pertains to YOUR preferences - Suspension is a bear to deal with, but when you get it right it’s really worth the effort. Talk to both builders and feel them out - Go with your gut feeling on who is going to give you what you want.

Also if I was going to spend that kind of cake, I would also go +2 on the arms and longer axle - Cheep addition to add a ton of stability. You will also be able to tweek the caster and camber also - another set of items that really help out.

You will really notice the difference in the desert with all of these items - do a 60 mile prerun before and after and you will see the difference...

great pics, Chris!

I have about 400 pics. Pete - What is the trick to that camera? - I am not all that happy with the unquality photos...

Just a few pics....

I was out fri-sun. camped by B/R 6 The last time i know for sure it was there was around 2 pm saturday. my sone filled up quads. There was always someone in camp. I was up till 11 pm but others were up till 2 am sunday. I got up around 6 am and noticed they were gone. 3 5 gal clear plastic jugs with 110 gas. found some foot prints in sand that didn't match anyone in camp. followed them for about 100yds, then lost them. maybe they jumped in a truck or utv who knows. I guess i'll have to invest in a cable/chain to secure my stuff. Been going out there over 5 yrs and never had anything stolen. Live and learn.

Same happened to me out there on Thanksgiving - What a pisser.. Came out of the trailer in the morning, and I can see the footprints from them walking back and forth taking each can....

Pete, I made a helmet light for the MR 16 lite and didn't have room for that connector so I used 2 - 3/16 (.187) flag style hi-temp connectors from Radio Shack. The 3/16 width just fits the MR 16 pin using one side of the connector and the hi-temp is hard and springy unlike the usual soft copper and keeps a grip on the pin and takes the heat. Just solder, heat shrink as good as you can and slip 1 side on a pin. It's goofy but I have used it with the current 71W narrow spot bulb untouched for over 8 years on the quad, DRZ and even the Seadoos at night around the island at Havasu

was going to be temporary till I found something decent but it worked no problem. If you find a source maybe you can find high heat straight pin connectors.

Cant you cut open a butt splice (12ga) and solder that on the bulb and then stick the wire in the remaining and also solder that in? If you want I can make some with disconnects - Just drop the bulbs off at the office...

getting the shocks revalved and sprung is a realativly inexpensive way to make a bit of diffrence

You can set the ride height with just a spanner for your rear shock. You can also set compression and rebound of the rear on the stock raptor shock - So no you will not be pissing money away - The only cost is the spanner (20 bones) and time.

If you don’t have the reservoir stock shocks on the front they will have to be replaced - I don’t think there is anyone that reworks the front non-resi shocks. The rear on the other hand can be revalved/resprung from TCS. Elka will not do this service - they want you to buy there’s.

Even if you go with Elka, they are not completely tuned to you - I think they have a 50-pound range that most people find being sufficient. If you put them on after ordering them and they are not what you like, they will redo them for a price. TCS will rework them for you for the price of shipping.

If you want help on adjusting the rear let me know...

I have heard that Elka makes some sweet suspension systems. I have been told that a good suspension system will drastically increase my riding comfort and capability.

You are absolutely correct – Tuning the suspension is going to really make a difference in comfort and ridability. I would rather have an underpowered bike with a tuned suspension, then an overpowered bike with chitty suspension. A great example of that is in a Class 1 Car and a Class 10 Car – One has the best of both worlds, and the other has pretty much the same suspension with a limited motor – Look at the results on long course, they are comparable.

Even if you spent a little time with a spanner wrench on your current setup – You will see a big difference. Being the size/weight you are on the 700, there is no way you are going to get it great with the current setup – but you will see the difference. It’s a big bike with stiff suspension.

You can be on the marketing bandwagon and go with Elka. Not saying they are bad, but you can get comparable items from a smaller company and be able to call someone for support in the USA to get answers.

Also Elka won’t rework your rear shock; they will just want to sell you their brand new one for about double the price. Use that money to work with someone that will help you in the fine tuning.

You also are not going to get the best setup just out of the box – You need someone that is going to work with you to make the tweaks – what’s good for one guy is not always good for you. There are a lot of factors that come into play in the suspension – It would blow your mind when someone that KNOWS about suspension explains to you all the small bits that make up the whole. Do your research, and not listen to the hype - You will see that there are much better/comparable items out, with a much better price!

Now let the flaming start....

If you have the resi front shocks, TCS can revalve/respring them - If not yhere shocks are pretty sweet on the front. They can respring/revalve the rear for sure also.

The yellow arms that you saw on mine are from ummmm Ill have to look - But the ex's bike had the ones from some place in Utah - They were pretty good also...

I think you should get the Olympus Stylus 850 SW - Its a little cheap, but thats what I have and thats all that matters!

Really though - My friend has all of that equipment if you want to talk to him...

A couple more pics....

Nick -

Pete -

Overall -

I have a friend that is a "Dry Back" - A mexican that cant speak spanish.....

It was funny cause we were talking about Sham Wows in Dumont a couple of weeks ago when we where there. We were pointing out that they say made in Germany, and you know the Germans make good stuff line....

Then on the TV is the slap chop with Vince - Man I was ready to buy one...

Vince can sell Slim Fast to an Ethiopian with his skillz....

By the way Sham Wows rock - I got them for Christmas

I don’t know how the Slap Chop will do – Williams Sonoma has had them for a few years now – The only thing Vince has going for him is the price…

My buddie used to be Hart Motorsports but has went out of business but still builds out of his garage. They do alot of work with Subie motors. Here in Covina, So Cal. Sorry, I dont have a number.

I have Al's number if needed - Ive known him for about 25 years.

I have my old paddles if you want them - just pick them up.

Do you do work for cromwell? if so, my office is just a couple of doors down...

We met those guys at the North pole after it happened. The guys I was with helped them pull the Warrior out of the truck and heard their story. The quad wasn't there on Saturday-maybe the rangers made them take it back?

The quad I saw was at the north pole on saturday morning at around 10:30am...

But it didnt look like it was burned there cause the sand was all clean. I guess that the burned sand could have blown away - I dont know...

There was also a quad at north pole that was burned on saturday morning.... As far as the truck, I dont know - I just saw the fire crew there putting it out.

Imagine that - Caller to fire department - Hey we have a truck on fire, can you swing by and put some water on it so maybe we can get the trailer home - Fire department to caller - Sure where are you - Caller - Just down the road in dumont - Fire department - Sure well be there in a couple of minutes....

It looked like the truck pulled a trailer out there - Man thats going to be a rough ride home pulling the trailer with the quad home....

He probally just needs to flip the axle and it will straighten out in no time....