SailAway

I read through this thread and can't find it but maybe I missed it... What is the purpose of having the stripper pole out there and not in your own camp... more room? 1) Is it for profit? 2) To provide entertainment? 3) To promote your business? As for the permit, it is essential if you want to run your "show" on public land. One of the reasons is, your "attraction" is going to require more police activity to keep you and your pole dancers, and the crowd around all of you, safe. Users who would not be present at the "show" should not have to pay for what they won't use... so you, as the business owner/entertainer, will naturally have to foot the bill for the extra law enforcement presence, trash cleanup, etc. That is, if you are granted a permit. President's Day is out of the question already due to the timing, by the way... the process takes about 180 days to complete. The BLM is not there to enforce morality laws, but they are there to protect our resources and serve the duning public. Dumont Dunes is a recreation area, used by people of all ages. The demographics of Dumont vary tremendously from those at Glamis and the BLM knows that, and they know there is a huge public push to keep it that way. As such, it's quite likely they will continue to do exactly what they did last time... send your party back to the privacy of your camp. Vicki

wooooo hooooo this is GREAT! Yes indeed, !! And I just got off the phone with a guy (hiya Gary) who does lazer etching on stone and wood and has a very cool prize he wants to donate. He has this machine that recreate pictures on wood or stone. I love my rhino and think it would look FABULOUS on a paperweight for my desk. But of course I am not eligible to win this dandy prize, so I just get to gaze longlingly when the sample is delivered. Gary said he'll be posting pictures of some of his recent creations to give everyone a better idea of what his work looks like, hopefully this afternoon. Thank you to everyone who is stepping up for this cleanup. Geez, we broke attendance records last year... I wouldn't be at all surprised to double that this year! Vicki

I think that's what was tried last year but as I remember a lot of the bags got missed or didn't get counted in with the other DDR bags. And getting those tickets counted and then the numbers to the announcers gets a little hectic right at the height of the raffle prizes.

If it was me, I'd decide on a very specific spot where everyone in the group places their filled bags. Use a magic marker to number them maybe or just have someone "log them in" as they're dropped off (we'll work out a way for them to get the raffle tickets too). The pictures of the piles of bags would be great to see and you'd have an easy way to verify just how many bags you all did bring in. Getting the pile of bags to the dumpsters is an easy enough task at the end of it all. Vicki

Excellent information! Don't forget the prize for most number of bags turned in by an individual, and most number of bags turned in by a group. I've already received word that last year's group winner intends to walk away with the trophy again, by the way... just thought I'd mention that. Oh, and we gave out t-shirts last year and will do so again this year, but get there early because they are given out on a first-come, first-served basis. When you sign up for the cleanup you'll get a "t-shirt ticket" along with one raffle ticket, an empty trash bag (or several, if you want them) and your lunch pass. T-shirts will be given out starting around 11:00. Vicki

This is going to be great for positive press! Every time we can get something out that shows the best side of our sport we gain a little ground. It's so much harder to close down something that doesn't fit the "earth destroyer" propaganda the anti-access groups spew. Vicki

You know... having a fire truck out there for the kids to gawk at might be kind of fun. Some of those little plastic fireman hats and badges, a lot of hand shaking and hero worship. Just a thought...

I'm sure that would be one of the more popular prizes! Here's what we do with the raffle prizes at the Dumont cleanup... We label coffee cans with the name of each prize and then the dune users get to pick and choose which prize they want to "go for." You can put all your raffle tickets in one bucket or spread them out. We already have separate cans for "kid" prizes and any prizes we get that must be for 21 and older, well, we'll just make sure the only people who pick up that prize can produce their I.D. when they do. Vicki

woooo hoooo the cleanup's only two months away! What a great time this is and lots of great duners helping keep Dumont sparkling. Visit the Friends of Dumont Dunes for more information on the cleanup and a link to the flyer. Anyone visiting shops seeking donations might want to print out a stack to take with them. We had record numbers turn out for last year's shindig and this year we expect bigger and better! Vicki

I understand what you're saying, but if that was a true scenario, each and every public beach would be closed to use on holiday weekends. Ever see Pacific Beach after the fourth of July? The one "environmental" concern I have when it comes to dumpsters, is adding an element that can be used against us. Dumpsters draw critters who can in turn endanger sensitive species. It is one more nail in our coffin. Someone asked who is pushing for dumpsters... it has been brought up several times at the TRT meetings but it is my understanding that the BLM is not pushing for them. I'll check the notes but in the meantime if someone else can fill in the gaps (Terry, John?) please do. As I recall it was brought up by an off-road leader. Vicki

I love the idea of the BLM handing out trash bags. When you go through the gate at Pismo you get a little information booklet and a trash bag. I have personally handed out trash bags to duning families near me who seem to have left theirs at home... it breaks the ice, cleans up the mess and cost me maybe three cents and maybe 5 minutes of my time. I think having the rangers hand out trashbags would send a definite message that it's a priority at Dumont. Vicki

I think they are reluctant to delay people who have passes so they don't stop to hand them anything. It would be nice if the rangers and camp hosts could carry some in their vehicles to hand out at "good will" stops. Making them available to vendors for distribution is another thought. All in good time. This has been an interesting year for FoDD and we're still working some of the bugs out of the system. Vicki

http://www.death-valley.us/article1434.html BLM trying to educate recreationists on importance of truly packing out trash – not just dumping it in nearby towns By Jon Klusmire Off-road enthusiasts enjoying the Dumont Dunes have been well-trained when it comes to the “pack it in and pack it out” concept concerning their trash. Now they are getting a little reminder that they need to pack their trash all the way back home, instead of stopping and dumping it in Tecopa. When it became apparent earlier this winter that Tecopa’s limited number of private dumpsters was getting swamped with trash, the Bureau of Land Management moved “aggressively and fast” to staunch the flow of drive-by garbage dumping, said Roxie Trost, the Barstow-based BLM field manager for Dumont Dunes. The BLM paid for additional dumpsters in Tecopa, paid to have those dumpsters emptied and is providing flyers concerning trash and Tecopa to Dumont Dunes users, she said. Those moves, however, were seen as short-term solutions. The long-term solution, she said, is getting people to take their trash home and not dump it anywhere along the route. Putting dumpsters or other trash collection stations in the Dumont Dunes is not currently being considered, Trost said. The BLM will keep working on the Dumont Dunes trash situation, she added, so Inyo County doesn’t feel the financial burden of having to pick up after visitors to the dunes. The Dumont Dunes Off-Highway Vehicle Recreation Area is located about 18 miles south of Tecopa, along State Route 127, in San Bernardino County. The 10,500-acre site is managed by the BLM and designated for OHV use, and is getting plenty, with about 130,000 visitors a season (from October to May). Trost estimated that about half those visitors come from the Las Vegas area, thus travel through Southeast Inyo to and from the dunes. This winter, those Las Vegas-bound travelers have been packing their garbage out of the Dumont Dunes, then stopping in Tecopa and other towns along the way home to deposit their trash, said Chuck Hamilton, director of Inyo County’s Integrated Waste Management Program. “Most of the time, the waste exceeded the capacity of the bins in Tecopa,” he noted. That situation is what prompted a call to Trost, and the BLM’s decision to install one new dumpster in Tecopa and add another one during holiday weekends, when use soars at Dumont Dunes, said Trost. Signs were also posted informing travelers that they shouldn’t be dumping in Tecopa. In addition to the dumpsters and signs, Trost and other BLM staffers were stationed at the dumpsters to query potential dumpers about their deposits, and inform them Tecopa wasn’t the place to unload a weekend’s worth of garbage. That two-pronged approach to holiday weekends started during Thanksgiving and continued through New Year’s Day, and seems to have made a difference. “We’ve already seen a decrease” in the number of people and amount of trash ending up in the Tecopa dumpsters, said Trost. There’s a good side and a downside to the dumpster plan, noted Second District Supervisor Susan Cash. Everyone should be “grateful the public is using the dumpsters and not trashing the land,” she said. But a wave of trash washing up in Inyo County from visitors would impose “a huge burden on a small county,” she added. The sight of “neat little bundles of trash along U.S. 395” is evidence, however, that not every traveler is so thoughtful about garbage disposal, pointed out Fourth District Supervisor Jim Bilyeu. Trost stressed the BLM would be working to take care of the trash problem, and would monitor how the extra dumpsters and educational efforts worked this season. Since the Dumont Dunes site is operated under the federal “Recreational Fee Program,” the BLM generates about $300,000 a year in fees that can be used to maintain, staff and police the area, Trost noted. The dumpsters in Tecopa and the cost of hauling that trash comes from the fees, she added. If Inyo County feels it is being impacted by visitors to Dumont Dunes, the county can “call me anytime” to discuss any costs or impacts “the BLM needs to cover,” said Trost. “That sounds reasonable,” said Cash, who suggested the county and BLM meet in May to review the situation and address any concerns. Currently, Trost said the BLM has no dumpsters in the Dumont Dunes, and would prefer not to put dumpsters at the site. In several instances, the BLM has had “bad luck with dumpsters” at several recreation areas, said Trost, and often finds a site will be “cleaner when no dumpsters” are available, forcing people to pack their trash out. She cited several instances where on-site dumpsters created problems similar to those at a regular dump. The Glamis Dunes, managed by the BLM El Centro Field Office, offers trash collection on-site, Trost noted, but that move created a dumpster-full of problems. Those problems included people not quite getting their trash in the dumpsters, leaving mountains of garbage on the ground, locals and visitors rummaging through the trash looking for recyclables, animals rummaging through the trash looking for a meal and people using the BLM dumpsters for regular trash to avoid dump fees. “We don’t want to promote a dumpster-dependent society,” she said. Instead, the BLM’s approach at Dumont Dunes is “an education effort” to get users to follow all the way through with the “pack it in, pack it out” concept by taking their trash back home, she said, instead of dumping it at the site or in nearby towns. The dunes provide a good setting for the educational approach, she noted, since there is only one entrance to the site. Thus, when visitors pay the $20 fee, they can also be “educated” either verbally or with the informational flier that addresses the trash situation and strongly suggests a solution. The flier states rather boldly, “Do Not Dump Your Trash in Tecopa or Any Place Else,” and explains the BLM’s stance on not providing trash collection at the Dumont Dunes. The flyer concludes, “Dispose of it at home! We recognize that this is a burden, but the best solution for everyone is for each of us to Pack It In and Pack It Out.” Copyright © 2006 Inyo Register

Some of the strongest pressure is actually coming from within the TRT which makes it even harder. Ed Waldheim (CORVA leader) sits on the TRT and is one of the most vocal advocates of putting in dumpsters even if it means raising the fees to do it. So don't just write to the BLM... anyone who is a member of an OHV organization should also be making sure the leaders of that organization are acting in their best interests. They can't possibly know what that is without input from the source, the very users themselves. Vicki

Anyone who liked "old school" Glamis would remember Roxie Trost... that's where she was for quite a while before finally climbing out of that dysfunctional pit. There are a lot of good posts here and it's great to see so much interest. Dumont is lucky to have duners so dedicated. Yes, sending letters and emails to the BLM/TRT is a big help. If we don't tell them what we want (or don't want), they are left to their own imaginations... and Dumont deserves better. Form letters really won't work. Good thing, because that's all the anti-access folks are able to generate. They have money, but lack the passion that the good guys have. Just a few words from the heart would be enough, and don't worry about it being perfect, just sincere. Vicki

Yes, it will cost at least $100,000 a year and that’s before the anti-access crowd gets their hooks into it and starts demanding ‘special’ dumpsters or they’ll seek total closure. Someone mentioned Pismo... that’s a California State Park and an entirely different kettle of fish when it comes to how they get their money. There is no way around it... dumpsters at Dumont would be paid for by the users of Dumont. Not that there’s anything wrong with that... if the users of Dumont want it that way, that is. The question “Do you want to see dumpsters at Dumont” would be answered differently if it was asked “Do you want to pay for dumpsters at Dumont.” And then ask the question of where they might like to see that $100,000 spent instead and the answer may differ. Vicki

The Technical Review Team for the Dumont Dunes has been discussing the possibility of bringing dumpsters to Dumont on a regular basis. At the expense of the dune users. Friends of Dumont Dunes (www.FriendsOfDumontDunes.org) has a representative on the TRT (John Dalgleish) and our vice president, Terry Allen, represents Nevada duners on the TRT. As the organization that focuses solely on the Dumont dunes, we work for YOU, the Dumont dune user. So... we need to know what it is the Dumont duning community would like us to fight for. Do the users want dumpsters at Dumont? Let's talk about it. ALL opinions are welcome and needed so please start talking! Vicki

It looks to me like this law was created as an enforcement tool to give some teeth to an existing law. My guess is it stems from someone who was hit or damaged by an uncertified minor driver and the victim wanted more satisfaction. I don't agree with new laws and feel strongly that there are enough laws on the books right now and proper enforcement would benefit both law enforcement and the user. Most laws help keep us safe if they are enforced during use or prior to use. This law seems designed to allow a bitter bite after the fact. We all know there are parents out there who use their ATVs as a babysitter. They look the other way while their child races through camps, darts out from behind obstructions and hasn't got a clue about dune ettiquette. I think this law was created to make those parents responsible for what happens when that child races through a camp and strikes another vehicle, darts out from behind an obstruction and hits another quad, or screams through a crowd of onlookers. Here is the link to the State of Caliornia OHV web page for current OHV regulations. Here is the text of the safety training regulation: I don't remember who posted that they never received a training certificate when they purchased a new quad, but they should return to the dealer and push for one. The dealers were not required to offer the training but they had a letter of understanding with the Consumer Product Safety Commission that they would do so. Vicki

I got a call from the Barstow Field Office Manager today with an update on the crossing situation. Apparently it's not just a matter of the paperwork... with a little effort that could have probably been forced through quickly. But the weather has already started posing a problem and the decision was made to wait until there were no concerns about flooding to really get the project rolling. Since we're expecting a wetter-than-usual winter season, this is just not a good time to start. A little water and they could have re-routed the project. A lot of water and we would have lost our main access while they scrambled to recover. Vicki

Friends of Dumont Dunes received an update on this last week and it looks like the project has been delayed by the National Environmental Policy Act. The bad news is we don't have a new date certain when the project will begin/end. The good news is this issue is being tackled before the work was started so there will be no inconvenient blockage. We'll have to operate as we have always had to operate, but it would have been disastrous to have the work in progress suddenly stopped with access impeded. We'll keep everyone updated as we learn more. Vicki

I think this is what Disneyland and some of the other 'big' amusement parks do... it's a way to reduce capacity without actually setting capacity limits. I would imagine statistically it keeps out some of the riff-raff. Unfortunately, it also eliminates an entire class of people that just want to go out and have fun but for whatever reason just can't afford the high price. And in the case of public lands, eliminating any class of recreationists is a bad thing. Vicki

And here is a more complete set of State regulations, including the one for spark arrestors. V.

Sound levels are mandated by the State of California... Go here for more information. Vicki

No flashing Vegas sign to be seen... these flashing mouth thingies are something completely different. Although they will be widespread in Vegas come New Year's eve this year. :freakin_nuts: Vicki

Say... think we'd attract a bigger crowd if we put in those flashing mouth thingies we passed around Saturday night??? Free stuff is always good but drawing them over long enough to actually discuss the issues and WHY they should get involved is better and that's not always easy. The sand made them stop long enough to bend their ears a little, usually. And the pictures drew them inside where we could surround them if we wanted. Next year how about an above eye-level shelf unit with a TV on top playing one of a thousand sand videos... with literature on the shelves below. And candy... get the kids inside and the parents follow. B) Geez... everyone has had some great ideas and it's only been two days. Can you imagine what we'll have in a year?!? Vicki