eli

First Don't exit the vehicle, stick your hands out the window. Two kinds of people do that...felons and permit holders. The cop will figure out which you are fast enough. Felons don't normally declare weapons they aren't supposed to have:) Second My point exactly Vegas hasn't started this........yet. Your buddies don't appear to be dumb as a pile of rocks. Some others....not so much. Eli

Great theory....reality is somewhat different: I NEVER get out of the car unless requested to do so. I stick my hands out the window where the officer can see them. So if I'm handcuffed, standing in front of cruiser without any access to the center console and they tear the entire vehicle apart you would think that unreasonable....Not in Henderson in their eyes you declared a weapon and that's enough for them. Used to be true but it appears the databases have been updated. I've been stopped when the officer didn't have time or any reason run anything but my plate. He asked if there was a weapon in the vehicle and I told him no because there wasn't. He said "the reason I asked is that it showed you had a permit which comes up now." I think Metro added it to their database. Metro has never supported "must issue" anyway although that's their boss's lobbying in Carson City and not all of the street cops views. Eli

I don't think you EVER HAVE to consent. If they think they have probable cause they are gonna do it anyway. If they ask you if you have something to hide you still have the right not to incriminate yourself even if you are breaking the law. The legal advise I got was: "There is case law supporting probable cause in every possible direction. It's simply a matter of finding a case that supports your situation." Unfortunately the DA knows that too. CCW instructors in Nevada often tell you to declare the weapon during a traffic stop. That's simply common sense, nobody wants to surprise a cop with a weapon but to my knowledge there is no Nevada law requiring you to do so. In an interesting twist often applied in North Vegas and Henderson. When you tell the officer your CCW he may search your vehicle even without possible cause "because he's required to make the weapon safe" or so they will claim. So if he's run your plate through the database and it comes back you are a permit holder, can he then search your vehicle? I say not, he still doesn't have probable cause but North Vegas and Henderson disagree by their actions. Regardless it's stupid position for them to take. IMHO it makes the streets more dangerous for everybody including the cop on the street. If you have the right not to incriminate yourself if you are doing so illegally, why would the street cops want to hassle somebody that's already gone through the permit process and clearly wants to be legal? The answer simply seems to because they think they can. Those that are legal should be able to declare without getting hassled over it especially when they are not required to do so. IMHO These two cities and the officers that pull this crap truly belong in the state of California and it seems they would be in similar company at Tecopa. Eli

Remember to change your air box to something that actually works I like the Dragonfire (BTI) It's $$$ but installs without cutting and can be returned to stock without a hassle. Clean it every night without fail! Don't put off the skid plate. My stock one came off in pieces. I'm not a big fan of aluminum skid plates. They protect OK and may be fine for the dunes but dent on the trail and don't slide over the rocks as well. It's 1/2" UHMV for me. Holtz center UHMV plate with aluminum sides and diff covers might be OK but from the look of my Polaris rock sliders the aluminum side protectors aren't gonna be pretty for long. Eli

Hasn't been legal up Sperry wash since 1974 but a lot of people did it. More difficult since BLM cabled the wash at Sperry in about 2002. About 5 miles from Western Talc Rd to the China Ranch turnoff via Furnace Creek Rd. Not that is legal either. Eli

Legally I think most roads in CA gravel or otherwise are closed to everything but street legal vehicles. Western Talc Rd. is an exception. A lot of ATV traffic on Furnace Creek Road at the end of Western Talc Rd. It's gravel at that point and less than a mile to Upper Noonday camp where you turn east to the Tecopa mines. A lot of ATV traffic up there too. The mines themselves are private property so Mr. Ranger can't say :poop: but be respectful. Get the glasses out at the Columbia Mine and look north and you will see a different trail around the hill back to Furnace Creek Rd. You should be able to find the Tecopa RR at the Columbia but I haven't found it yet. A couple miles to the other branch of the Tecopa RR and follow that to the Gunsight. You still aren't to the China Ranch turnoff. Furnace Creek Rd. likely isn't legal itself so just get off it ASAP. I'd hope Inyo county views things differently than San Bernardino. Can't legally get to Riggs from Dumont anymore either. I'm not sure how people are getting to China Ranch these days except on Furnace Creek Rd. I don't take a ATV in there out of respect for the owners but it may be mis-guided as $$$ may be $$$. Some day I'll ask them. Not to give away one of my favorite spots but I've never seen a LEO. I can go to Dumont or I can go to the mines or I can go to the hot springs. Did lose a couple of tires on Furnace Creek Rd. New Years but that can happen anywhere. Other campers were very respectful even asked it we minded if they shot off fireworks which of course we didn't. Still didn't see a LEO they must all be at Dumont Eli

Sperry Wash past Western Talc, to the Tecopa mines. The Gunsight mine via the Tecopa RR, difficult to find the RR if you don't know it's there and not exactly a high speed run but interesting none the less. Eli

Well when I didn't hear from Ruark I went ahead and posted the story on the T&T mailing list. The wonderful news is the guy I was referring to is still able to return emails. He's not that much younger than Ruark's mother. His history is interesting. His father was killed in a flash flood in the desert. Strange way to die in the desert. He was raised for much of his life in a converted box car on a work train parked where ever needed along the T&T. He worked in many of the mines around the area. He went to college and discovered a better way of making magnesium and became very successful. Well it was worth a try..... He recalls that they were parked at Riggs several times and Valjean once. He doesn't recall that Saratoga Springs road had that much sand and doesn't recall a road with ties but says it's possible. He agrees Owl Springs seem too far for a man in that condition. I asked why Riggs and not Valjean which would have been closer and easier to see a light from 127. He replied that the road to Riggs was and is a freeway compared to the road to Valjean. Gary

I haven't had time to look for owl springs but the name rings a bell. The railroad was still in use in 1923 so the grade isn't the road you are looking for. Unless it was one of the Silver Lake realignments. Walking on 127 is unlikely though not impossible. I'm not sure exactly when they built it over the pass but the first road was a truck road through Sperry Wash from Western Talc Mine. Yep the same we travel today as an approved atv route. Again join and post the story on the nvshortline list at yahoogroups.com. If anybody remembers anything or the tale was told....one of the members (who was raised in a boxcar along the T&T) may know something about it. Eli

That white spot west of the road and by the co2 lettering appears to be it but you can't zoom it far enough to be absolutely sure. Eli

Ron, I'm a Tonopah and Tidewater Railroad fan out of Las Vegas and have been to Riggs many times. If I'm working in March somebody from the Tonopah & Tidewater mailing list at yahoogroups.com might be able to lead you out there. Simply search for the Tonopah and Tidewater group and send a email to the list owner. That's me. Consider renting a 4 wheel drive mostly for the sake of your mother. Legally you will need to come in from the south. Riggs Road is north of the cemetery at Silver Lake. The Section House is very close to intersection of Riggs Road and the Tonopah and Tidewater Railroad grade. Unlike most other section houses on the T&T the end walls at Riggs were made of concrete. They remain although fallen. Like many stops on the T&T Riggs was dry and water was hauled in, the cistern remains. PM me on this list with your email and I will be happy to help in any way I can, I am rather busy for awhile but will get maps sat photos and GPS info off to you when I get time. There's also a Tonopah and Tidewater website that may be of help to. Simply google Tonopah and Tidewater. Eli Now that I think about there a couple of mailing list members from Texas. I should be able to put you in touch with them as well.

I thought about the old Tecopa RR grade which gets you to either the Gunsight or the Noonday mines but don't know how to get over the mountains without the paved road over Tecopa Pass. Which wash would that be? Sperry? There's been cable, posts, and signs at Sperry turning you east on Western Talc for several years. Been an ACEC at the barbed wire fence about 3 miles north of Sperry since about 1974. Was so overgrown with Salt Cedar at the T&T bridge location you couldn't even hike it about 7 years ago. Which still leaves you several miles south of the date farm via Sperry Wash. Turning south at Old Tecopa then east runs you pretty much around the mountains. Kind of looked like Kingston and a County Rd would get into you to Primm but that's on a map. I don't know on the ground never tried it. Eli

That's gonna be legally a little hard.....if not impossible. Which of course makes it interesting:) The wilderness starts 50' east of the T&T grade which runs the entire east side of dumont. Another starts south on that grade before you reach Valjean. So the grade is out to south as well as east out of Dumont. West maybe a problem and it doesn't matter because you aren't gonna be able to do much even if you reach Baker. The preserve on the other side of 15 is off limits. North up Sperry Wash then East on Western Talc Rd. will get you to Old Tecopa as opposed to present day Tecopa. If you turned south from there I think there may be a gravel road that will get you out of CA and into Nevada. From there I'm really not sure but encounters with the LEO's might be less severe in Nevada. Eli

Well the ties are for the most part gone. The rail is gone but the railroad grade is still there. Those big cuts and fills NE of the dunes weren't put there so you can trail ride. After you enter the pay station if you go to the left instead of up the hill, in other words up the gully....the big wall of dirt at the end is really a filled railroad bridge. On top of that fill on the dunes end the bridge timbers were coming through the dirt last time I was there. So why should you give a :poop:? The wilderness area is defined as 50' east of the centerline of that grade which runs east of the dunes for the entire length of the area. A fact that seems to escape the notice of the BLM that put up the damn signs. One of the best examples of which was at the other end of the bridge and was located well WEST of the grade. Eli

If you got the bucks for custom cage that's the place to go. If you don't have the bucks if he doesn't have a take off cage I'll bet he will have before long for....cheap. Eli

:poop: Anybody that wears that shirt has got to be from Nebraska...and I thought I liked him because he helped me out with Logandale info couple years ago. BTW Ken KILL EM ALL...bee stings make me sicker than :poop: Eli

I'm not thinking of anything but hitting what I'm shooting at. That's one reason I do it, it's a great way to get your mind off other things. Should your life depend on it...you better not be thinking but reacting. That's where lot's of practice comes in. There is plenty of time enough for thinking before and after the shooting is done. Eli

Gower is a good read. The Tincal Trail is dry as a popcorn fart in places and likely to be of interest only to those as strange as me. Which is maybe why I forgot about Dumont. So why did I reach for it in addition to Gower? Borax Smith and 20 Mule Team Borax are as American as apple pie or are they? The Tincal Trail is as English as High Tea. Why are a couple of limeys writing about Borax? Smith consolidated his borax holdings into Pacific Coast Borax Company in 1890. He merged PCB with Redwood and Sons in about 1896. The company name became something so long I'd have to look it up. In 1899 this company became Borax Consolidated Limited. Smith was the majority stockholder and one of two directors with RC Baker being the other. That's how Baker CA got it's name. So where are most of the company records for Borax Consolidated Limited? Across the pond.....it's an English Company. Pacific Coast Borax continued to exist as a company without any assets for a long time. Likely because Smith didn't want it known that American 20 Mule Team Borax wasn't owned by an American company anymore. So where's that leave the Tonopah & Tidewater Railroad and my beloved....not BLM? I'll get to that in another post. Eli

Or not she died in 1879...... "According to one account, Mrs. Dumont woke one morning in 1925 to find a note on the bureau. It read Bye-Bye, Baby Bunting, Daddy's gone a-hunting." Apparently the English authors (below) found some humor in that. At the time Harry Dumont was the General Sales Manager of Pacific Coast Borax. But was he really the one Dumont Dunes is named after? Smith's habit seems to have continued but was there another Dumont? Smith is long gone from Pacific Coast Borax before Harry Dumont even makes Sales Manager. Apparently Smith pensioned off a "Mr. Dumont" for a dollar a day long before. This "Mr. Dumont seems to have entered the Company's service when he was over 70 years of age and appears to have continued in this service for 9 or 10 months.." This apparently written in 1914. So Daddy went a-hunting at over 81? There is a Harry Dumont in 1906 a officer of PCB in New York and again in Chicago in 1925 a Sales Manager. The same? Father and son? I really wouldn't :poop: you over something this strange. The above is from the "The Tincal Trail A History of Borax" written by N.J. Travis and E.J. c*cks (Hey I wouldn't :poop: you about that either. It's really his name) Published in London in 1984. Eli

Yep it was an interesting bridge at least to a railfan like me. I can't seem to find a picture of it on the web right now. The cattle would be closer to what at least the guy that ran them called the Bowel. Eli

Area of Critical Environmental Concern. I was told 3000' Above Ground Level. Permission was granted several years before from the NPS to low fly the DVP but it was denied later. Somebody wanted to something to do with dropping water on the highest and lowest points in the US. In any case it was a no go with the BLM. Eli

It's clearly the bridge site. The doggies may be located just south of there or in what's called the Bowel just south of Tecopa I can't tell. Both were overgrown with salt cedar last time I was there and the BLM removed them doggies long ago. Eli

These are clearly what are called the Palisades. I tried to get somebody to low fly the area about 8 years ago when I was doing a low budget movie but it didn't happen because it's an ACEC and been one since 74. I for one am glad you where slightly off course. Looks like the T&T grade in the foreground just past the bridge site. Eli

Depends on how you look at it. The bigger they are the harder they fall....So I'd have to say I'm married to one that is MORE fortunate in that dept. Not that I haven't wondered.... From hero to back in the :poop: house again.....in a single post. Eli

I only have a couple of years duning but I have a couple of decades poking around the desert. Does that mean mean I :hungry: enough? Don't answer that. Eli