LVBob Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 It's a real shame some people don't observe these laws, especially around area 14 / B & C this last weekend. I think these need to be posted in the rules section too! OHV Operation Requirements SPEED, TURNING, RECKLESS DRIVING You may not drive a motor vehicle in a manner that endangers the safety of other persons or their property (CVC 38305, 38314, 38316a, 38317). PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMIT No motor vehicle shall exceed 15 mph within 50 feet of any campground, campsite, or concentration of people or animals (CVC 38310). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertskyz Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 This topic has be discussed at great length. The LEOs can not be everywhere all the time. I do love seeing them get stopped. In my opinion it is the male, 13 to Look at me, Look at me I'm faster then you crowd that are the biggest violators. What ya gonna do. We can't shoot them that's against the law also. (Damn it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cheese Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 we call them azzhat camp racers, and they have been a problem for awhile now. azzhat camp racers come in all ages, shapes and sizes, but a majority are under 18, out of mom and dads sight, and cannot handle too much responsibility at one time, like public safety. i wish rangers would start lighting peeps up for that...people at oceano get pulled over left and right for that chit all day long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas style Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 my rant is all the kids driving rhinos. its a 1000 pound car people! every 3rd one in the camping area had a kid driving(pre-teen). and most could barely see over the steering wheel. a lot were packed with 3-4 kids going full bore. i think this is the stupidest thing. they dont know how to drive, they dont have the skills to stay out of bad situations, and they never look anywhere but forward or at the stereo. i cant believe there is any insurance that is going to cover them in a accident. just looks like a accident waiting to happen. oh im not positive but i do believe it is illegal. if not it should be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
04toy Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 My only comment/addition to this rant: This past weekend we were camped near #9 and saw mostly ADULTS driving their rails like "jerks" and behaving like they were 13 years old. I did see the LEOs pull 3 of them over on Saturday morning, promptly thanked the LEOs for being there (Dumont not just near our camp). Shooting them with live amo might not be legal, but how about frozen/chilled paint-balls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badapple1995 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I too see a lot of kids with no skill whatsoever driving rhinos & razrs. It's amazing what parents will let their kids do these days. But these are prolly the ones sitting back at camp getting drunk, then go out riding later. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Between our camp and the one next to ours became a popular racing strip (near restroom 3). That was until someone lined cones between the 2 camps. When we were packing up, a handful of quads (about 5-6) race around 50 mph. Bluesteel walked it off - it was 7 feet from our toyhauler. Too bad we weren't tossing cones at that point in that area! :flatbiller: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvmedixs Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Dont use cones use some metal rebar or fence posts. It will stop them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limodriver Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 What about the ones that just race right through the middle of your camp and never look back? I guess you are suppose to have enuogh rigs to complete a circle so they cant get in and out. NOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I with all of you on all these subjects really. But why is that virtually everyone on this site drives cars that are unsafe, mostly having faulty safety equipment? 1. keep yourself safe 2. worry about others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandSoulja Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) I with all of you on all these subjects really. But why is that virtually everyone on this site drives cars that are unsafe, mostly having faulty safety equipment? 1. keep yourself safe 2. worry about others what? every body gets too crazy about this stuff... metal stakes???? most of the people that act like idiotsa are just ignorant... instead of coming on here and complaining about it and talking abut all the stuff you'd love to do why dont you just, (when the situation is available) get in your car or buggy or quad and follow that person until they stop at camp or whatever... and just let them know that its dangerous and rude to be racing in or around peoples camp.... i bet that will have a way bigger impact then... throwing cones, or using metal stakes, or whatever barbaric tactics you choose... remember they're still people, and chances are they just havent been educated. so help them out. and then if they act like d*ck$ to our face...give them a wedgie. Edited November 4, 2008 by SandSoulja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 I with all of you on all these subjects really. But why is that virtually everyone on this site drives cars that are unsafe, mostly having faulty safety equipment? 1. keep yourself safe 2. worry about others WTF are you talking about Jon? :argue: Everyone I know on this site has very safe cars with safety equipment that is in great shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 what? every body gets too crazy about this stuff... metal stakes???? most of the people that act like idiotsa are just ignorant... instead of coming on here and complaining about it and talking abut all the stuff you'd love to do why dont you just, (when the situation is available) get in your car or buggy or quad and follow that person until they stop at camp or whatever... and just let them know that its dangerous and rude to be racing in or around peoples camp.... i bet that will have a way bigger impact then... throwing cones, or using metal stakes, or whatever barbaric tactics you choose... remember they're still people, and chances are they just havent been educated. so help them out. and then if they act like d*ck$ to our face...give them a wedgie. well put :argue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazlay43 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 the only thing that bothered me was the v8 rails dumpin the clutch 5 feet away from my camp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 WTF are you talking about Jon? Everyone I know on this site has very safe cars with safety equipment that is in great shape. Its a fact that your own car will cause you injury in a minor accident due to the chassis design and the mount location of the shoulder belts. If you d like I d be glad to show you the problem. Its much easier to show in person. Most people do not want to hear that their car has a tragic design flaw, built by someone that apparently never raced in any organized racing association. The seat belt mounting in 99.9% of all rails wouldnt pass a 100 ft visual test by nascar, world of outlaws, nhra, ihra, etc, etc, etc, etc.... You can run a nascar or a 66 nova into a concrete barrier at 100 + mph and have the drivers walk away from massive carnage, but a sandrail into a pile of sand at a comparitively low speed results in compression spinal fractures? I see atleast 5 spinal injuries (compression fractures) posted on here a year regarding someones accident.....and thats just what gets posted on here from a friend of friend or a witness. Imagine how many happen? So, Pete, do you think Im wrong? Or are you gonna tell every passenger that gets in your car that, your belts are mounted wrong that could cause them injury? Nearly every sandrail is the same, and considering the speeds at which rzr's go and rhinos, saftey is more a matter of luck rather then planned deterent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) sorry, it posted twice... Edited November 5, 2008 by 1320 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Its a fact that your own car will cause you injury in a minor accident due to the chassis design and the mount location of the shoulder belts. If you d like I d be glad to show you the problem. Its much easier to show in person. Most people do not want to hear that their car has a tragic design flaw, built by someone that apparently never raced in any organized racing association. The seat belt mounting in 99.9% of all rails wouldnt pass a 100 ft visual test by nascar, world of outlaws, nhra, ihra, etc, etc, etc, etc.... You can run a nascar or a 66 nova into a concrete barrier at 100 + mph and have the drivers walk away from massive carnage, but a sandrail into a pile of sand at a comparitively low speed results in compression spinal fractures? I see atleast 5 spinal injuries (compression fractures) posted on here a year regarding someones accident.....and thats just what gets posted on here from a friend of friend or a witness. Imagine how many happen? So, Pete, do you think Im wrong? Or are you gonna tell every passenger that gets in your car that, your belts are mounted wrong that could cause them injury? Nearly every sandrail is the same, and considering the speeds at which rzr's go and rhinos, saftey is more a matter of luck rather then planned deterent. As a matter of fact, you are wrong. I know for a fact that my belts are mounted correctly and work. My last car was in a very hard hitting accident with a 2500 lb+ car. I was going about 20 mph, he was going about 35 mph. We clipped each other very hard and we both walked away from it. No, it wasn't head on, but it was a very hard hit that tested the integrity of the harnsesses and their ability to do their job. I know what you are saying. No...sandrails aren't really crash tested like major auto manfacturers, but they are pretty damn safe. The dunes are very dangerous and require alot of skill to navigate and ride safely. They aren't forgiving at all in a crash as most would think. No sandrail or vehicle in the world is indestructible or going to prevent ANY injury from happening. G force is G force and that is what causes injuries. Hell...take a damn trophy truck, nascar, 66 nova, whatever...and come up short on a big azz double or nose it into a dune or witches eye- you are gonna have major inuries such as spinal fractures. The biggest thing you can do to avoid injury is to not run out of talent. Post up a pic of that samurai you have Jon. Let me pic that thing apart! Here we go again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGP Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 As a matter of fact, you are wrong. I know for a fact that my belts are mounted correctly and work. My last car was in a very hard hitting accident with a 2500 lb+ car. I was going about 20 mph, he was going about 35 mph. We clipped each other very hard and we both walked away from it. No, it wasn't head on, but it was a very hard hit that tested the integrity of the harnsesses and their ability to do their job. I know what you are saying. No...sandrails aren't really crash tested like major auto manfacturers, but they are pretty damn safe. The dunes are very dangerous and require alot of skill to navigate and ride safely. They aren't forgiving at all in a crash as most would think. No sandrail or vehicle in the world is indestructible or going to prevent ANY injury from happening. G force is G force and that is what causes injuries. Hell...take a damn trophy truck, nascar, 66 nova, whatever...and come up short on a big azz double or nose it into a dune or witches eye- you are gonna have major inuries such as spinal fractures. The biggest thing you can do to avoid injury is to not run out of talent. Post up a pic of that samurai you have Jon. Let me pic that thing apart! Here we go again. Yes, please post up the pics of your ultra safe nhra,ihra,world of outlaw, nascar certified POS sammy you got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 You asked......and I offered to show you in person.....You may have been fine, and they may be mounted securily, but it doesnt change the fact that they are mounted too low. When you are in a resonable deceleration your shoulder belt shortens, and your shoulder is above the mounting point, so you will get shorter. As for my sammy, why dont you come over and look at it, and Ill show you what I m talking about. The sammy is probably capable of getting the occupants through most concievable accidents, which may include a 4000 lb sandrail doing a wheelie onto it and pushing it over many times. Pleas epm, and you can come over and pick it apart as much as you want, I ll gladly accept knowledgable input, but judging by the personal atacking nature of your responces I m guessing most of the people here dont want to hear anything other then , oh itll only be 6 8 months of pain. These cars are no different then any racing organization, and are regularely driven far worse in far worse conditions, but no one looks at them? And the majority of owners have no experience in knowing what is or isnt safe. Just because it has a belt doesnt mean its a safe belt. Pete, its not a personal attack , you just asked a quetion.....wtf was I talking about, I answered....you want to make it, mine compared to yours....is not an issue in the topic. Its a you against averything question and how you survive. I dont agree with all racing associations rules, or abide by them even, but some are simple physics, and its fact that basically every motorsport association would laugh at virtually all sand cars, weather they be 1000$ or 250 k $......they would still laugh. Shoot, probably half dont even use a 5 point harness.....a lot use 4 points.. Almost every car has the shoulder belts mounted too low (they should be at or above the should hieght) and any that have their belts routed through the seats, need to pull them and route them over. Unless they have a 5 year old that rides in that seat. Of course wearing a helmet or neck collar is another issue, arm restraints, roll bar padding...chassis bracing, the list is pretty long of very basic stuff. Am I perfect....no, but that isnt the topic. I rarely wear the harness or the arm restraints in the sammy, (it has both) but I rarely wear all the gear. Sometimes I do, when I m out playing in precarious places, or in big crowds. When Im cruising the flats at low speeds (less the 20, or on low level dunes I do usssually have the lap belt on.....will it get me...maybe, maybe I should wear the restraints every trip regardless of speed. I dont ride my busa down the street with out a jacket, gloves, boots, helmet.... Will my belts cause a compression fracture....no. Wuill something else get me.....maybe, but Ill keep looking at "accidents" and the wreckage and try to plan for those things that I see fail. Thats the basic reason why my rail isnt one color, I wont paint it or powder coat it till I pretty sure I wont make any more changes to it, its getting close, but its not there yet. ps....your shoulder belts are too low....really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Yes, please post up the pics of your ultra safe nhra,ihra,world of outlaw, nascar certified POS sammy you got. it may be a pos, that was the point, was to not spend 14k on a pos, but spend as little as possible. You can come over too if you like. Judging by the picture of your badass ride, you ll only get about 6 inches shorter, with your shoulder belts mounted down there. You hopefully will never need them, that would be great, but you put them on because you might, and it would be great if they did what they were suppose to instead of hurt you. Would you be pissed if we accidentally hit each other, and I walked away from my pos, and you never walked again? Actually I d probably bang up my knees in the dash, Im a big guy......that brings up a good point, and is a supporting factor for removing the hood and adding some more support to the frame. Ofcourse the outcome might be the other way, hopefully neither of us ever get tested, but life happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 BTW, to instantly turn the topic around using what I think would be discribed as a red herring falacy is sign of either poor debating skills, or a week argument. If you guys would please tell me why you wont get shorter if you stop fast.....then the argument is over. The shoulder belt isnt there to hold you down in the seat, the lap belt does that. The should belt is there to hold you from going forward. If you get in you car and you tighten your shoulder belt, and they pull down on your shoulders.......they are wrong. You should be able to tighten them as much as possible with virtually no discomfort or pulling down on your shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 I thought I said I was already in a bad collision in my car and the harnesses DID their job? Maybe it wasn't hard enough. So how far above your shoulders do the belts need to be mounted to be "certified" as safe? you want to make it, mine compared to yours....is not an issue in the topic No I'm not trying to compare my stuff to yours. You questioned the safety of most cars on this site and I argued the fact because I know that is false. Sorry, that Sammy cage still just doesn't look safe to me. I have seen many sandrail wrecks and many of these cars these days come out just fine as well as the occupants. You seem to have a real thing for arguing saftey. What car IS safe out at the dunes? Is a certified trophy truck safe in your opinion? Or are we only talking about SEAT BELTS here? personal atacking nature of your responces :?: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandSoulja Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 BTW, to instantly turn the topic around using what I think would be discribed as a red herring falacy is sign of either poor debating skills, or a week argument. If you guys would please tell me why you wont get shorter if you stop fast.....then the argument is over. The shoulder belt isnt there to hold you down in the seat, the lap belt does that. The should belt is there to hold you from going forward. If you get in you car and you tighten your shoulder belt, and they pull down on your shoulders.......they are wrong. You should be able to tighten them as much as possible with virtually no discomfort or pulling down on your shoulders. regardless of setbelts or safety regulations, we we're talking about the way people drive. no one claimed to have nascar approved sandrails. But i'm not worried about it...i drive a mini mog. and it has a ddr sticker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportco8 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 If we had to start getting inspections on sandrails,quads, etc that would open another can of worms. This is an offroad recreation for most of us and I do agree that safety is a very big concern, however if we left it up to an organization to determine what is safe or isn't then most people would not pass. I feel that it is the owners responsibility to make sure whatever they have is safe and in good working order, I also believe that alot of people would not recognize if they bought a new toy wouldn't know if it was safe. Last year I was at a practice track on my quad and there was a business there offering to do a suspension and safety check for free(obviously trying to drum up business). I think that is a great idea. I think people would respond that pretty well. I also think alot of people will not take well to being told something could be better on their favorite toy. So if anyone would like to put together some type of free safety check and needs volunteers I am in. I would help out for anything along theses lines. The other concerns that have been brought(camp racers etc), I have followed people and talked to them and it has went good a few times and not so good other times, but that is how I will continue to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) You said... .Post up a pic of that samurai you have Jon. Let me pic that thing apart! I dont know, that seems to be a personal attack, since you asked the question, wtf are you talking about? Everyone on this site has safe equipment etc etc.. I thought I said I was already in a bad collision in my car and the harnesses DID their job? Maybe it wasn't hard enough. So how far above your shoulders do the belts need to be mounted to be "certified" as safe? Generally, most inspectors, sanctioning bodies, from offroad to f1, to nascar to nhra use the at shoulder level (ie 90 degrees to the top of teh should, to 45 degrees above. No I'm not trying to compare my stuff to yours. You questioned the safety of most cars on this site and I argued the fact because I know that is false. Sorry, that Sammy cage still just doesn't look safe to me. And I asked you to please show me.....please come over and pick it apart....I even asked for a pm...(I didnt get one). The funny part is I dont think you ve even seen it other then in the beggining. The funny part is that you would call it unsafe and get in your car.......You car that probably goes 5x times faster on average, and uses the same or smaller tubing with 5 times less structural integrity. Id be very comfortable if you jumped you car off a dune and landed on me......but youd probably die if my sammy landed on your rail. Luckly it has a very very low chance of getting air born for any reason. The down side is that there are plenty of bigger cars that you probably even dune with and near that would really hurt you. I have seen many sandrail wrecks and many of these cars these days come out just fine as well as the occupants. You seem to have a real thing for arguing saftey. What car IS safe out at the dunes? Is a certified trophy truck safe in your opinion? Or are we only talking about SEAT BELTS here? :?: What is safe.......well, the only reason I argue it is because it is such a collosal JOKE. Instead of just being unsafe, a lot of cars are purposely built unsafe. Id rather see a guy duning with no belt versus one that isnt in correctly, and he thinks it is. At least the guy with no belt, knows he has no belt on. Is a trophy truck safe.....they are probably among the best in the world, probably why the weight 6000 lbs. Again, you think my sammy cage is unsafe.....please come over and show me why........not just do me disservice of saying thats unsafe. Please tell me, show me why. I didnt just yell your car is unsafe. I can see that there is no rear bar, at shoulder level, I can see that the belts go down since I know your not 4 ft 2 inches in hieght. If you were, it would probably be just fine. I then gave you the reason why its unsafe, (the belt shortens on decelertion if mounted to low causing you to need to become shorter), then I gave examples of how to tell if its to low, and cited the "ussual" or most common design of install that is acceptable (90 degrees to the shoulder to 45 degrees above). I think I covered it adiquatly, but also in me very first post state it was easier to show in person. The responce was, well, lets see your stuff..........if Im not mistaken, the condition of my stuff, has no bearing on weather yours is correct. For your information though, I do have two sets of belts in two of the sammy seats, one for adults and one for kids just for the reasons above. I also have what has been descibed by others as an extensive cage, that is far over done. I dont agree, I put the most valuble things in my life in it so I want it to keep them as safe as possible, when it might be hit by a sandrail, and pushed over 10 times rolling down a hill. Or when a quad or dirt bike rider is jumping without and effective spotter and lands on me.....(they would be hard pressed to even get a small peice in like a wheel or tire). Im not worried to much about what the driver of teh sammy can get into, it simple wont go fast enough for that kind of trouble, but I do have to worry about 70 mph sandrails that weigh 4400 lbs. The problem is that people dont want to hear, that something is wrong with there toy. Id rather have a bar added, and have the powder coat not match the paint match peerfectly and be safer then lay on backboard because of it on my way to umc in a helicopter. Sorry I dont know how to break my remarks out of your quote.....you can do it if you like, it would be easier to understand. Edited November 5, 2008 by 1320 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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