EY3BA11 Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 i havent seen one out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowdog Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. (AP) - A conservation group is seeking federal protection for a desert lizard that lives in an area favored by off-road vehicle riders. The Center for Biological Diversity filed a formal petition Monday to list the Mojave fringe-toed lizard as threatened or endangered with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The petition seeks protection for the lizard population in the area around the Dumont Dunes Off-Highway Vehicle Area, about 30 miles north of Baker. The site attracts some 140,000 off-road enthusiasts each year. U.S. wildlife officials have 90 days under the federal Endangered Species Act to decide whether to pursue a full, yearlong review of the species. It's not clear what it would mean for the off-roaders if the Mojave lizard were listed as endangered. But any proposal that limits access to Dumont Dunes could anger the riders, who are still bristling over the closure of nearly 50,000 acres of dunes in Imperial County to protect Piersen's milkvetch, a native plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowdog Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 i havent seen one out there... I haven't seen any at Dumont either, but here are a few from nearby closed dunes... This is one from Kelso Dunes: This guy is from Cadiz Dunes (south of Kelso): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandBox_Kid Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is so many acres of land in the Death Valley that people don't even want to fly over in an airplane much less do anything else with and these Eco terrorist want to shut down the little bit of this God forsaken land that we call our playground. So true Don. Since I got into this sport and finally got my own toyhauler I have done a bunch of online research as to where are the other locations to ride dunes.....Kelso....closed, Ibex....closed...and so on. There are at least 5 to 6 sets of dunes in the Death Valley region that I would love to ride....but they have all been closed!! It's disappointing to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowdog Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Armagosa was a target in the 80's and it will come into their radar again. The threat is still there. Just a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowdog Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 So true Don. Since I got into this sport and finally got my own toyhauler I have done a bunch of online research as to where are the other locations to ride dunes.....Kelso....closed, Ibex....closed...and so on. There are at least 5 to 6 sets of dunes in the Death Valley region that I would love to ride....but they have all been closed!! It's disappointing to say the least. Dunes closed just in Death Valley NP: Eureka Dunes Ibex Dunes Panamint Dunes Saline Dunes Eureka Dunes are HUGE. People used to ride there back in the 70's. That was a big loss for off-roaders. Kelso Dunes was another big loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 (edited) Aren't our (public) opinions counted based on names and addresses on a petition? For or against? I am sure that somone like Friends of Dumont will be right on the front line of the fight and probably the one primarely in charge of the fight. If that is the case and say for example Friends of Dumont, Friends of Oceano, Glamis, Riverside Riders etc......... signed eachothers partitions. That would be a lot of names of concerned parties. In effect and bigger army. If this does not already happen and somone wants to provide me the names and numbers of the acting presidents of organizations that support the cause in relevent ORV areas, threatened or not. I will call and write them and pitch the idea. The more people, the louder the roar. I am sure the CBD poops bigger than friends of Dumont and it seems to me that it is already proven that they can and will be responsible for the decline of our hobbies and passions. To date we are not safe but there may be safty in numbers and in order to win, or afford to win, we need numbers. Our whole democracy is based on numbers (votes). Polititions and presidents all get their positions based on public opinions which again is all about numbers. The more of us, the less their chances of winning (unless of course this lizard is really threatened). Again this is just my opinion as I have never fought for a cause like this. Edited April 12, 2006 by scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjcnlv Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Election time is coming up. There is only one significant political party that will align with the CBD and reinforce their disgusting thievery and that is the GAD DAMN DISGUSTING DEMOCRATS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjcnlv Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Also understand that the US Fish and Wildlife people are total shils for the eco-a-holes. This is an uphill fight. Do not give up. How about a mass demonstration at CBD HQ in Tuscon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHour Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I will join in on this fight also!!!!!!!!!!............. Dumont is entirely too small to be closing any of it like they did at Glamis. We need to get the word out there as fast as possible to everyone. For those that are going this weekend to Dumont for Easter, please tell as many people as you can out there about what's happening. Word of mouth, flyers, message planes over head, anything to alert fellow duners about this issue. We need to unite and fight for Dumont Dunes, a place that we all love............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 If anyone that is going out this weekend can spare a little time, it would be great to take some information camp to camp or to the gathering spots or at the entry point. Please let me know if anyone is interested and I'll get the information to you. Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHour Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 found a link to where you can join FoDD at http://friendsofdumontdunes.org/divpics/Fo...bership_App.pdf Hope this works............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazymexeddie Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Thank you HappyHour! as the previous posts have indicated-The threat of many of the OHV sites that we visit are under the threat of closing it is imperitive that we support any and all sites that try to fight these "terrorists"-good word Don!-that try to close them down.That is why I have printed up the application and i will certainly send out my help to the cause and not just financially but to go out to the dunes and volunteer myself anyway that I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHour Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 SWEET......... You rock crazy!!! Bummed I can't be there this weekend or I would help you out. I'm sending in my application tomorrow with my money........ We need to nip this thing in the butt. There are PLENTY of lizards out there to survive and NOT become extinct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_burgh Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I'll tell you what, people getting carted out of the dunes in the wee hours of the morning b/c they went out riding after drinking gives the terrorists more ammo. to shut down the dunes. And is it me, or does the trash increase throughout the area every time you go out? If the dunes are shut down, and you did nothing but sit back and hope everything works out, you deserve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanduners Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 (edited) Lizard eyed for shielding Group asks that reptile be studied for endangered list Andrew Silva, Staff Writer A lizard that can run on sand and swim beneath it should be protected in an area popular with off-highway vehicle riders, according a petition filed Monday by an environmental group. The Dumont Dunes Off-Highway Vehicle Area, about 30 miles north of Baker, is a 10,500-acre sandy playground for about 140,000 off-road enthusiasts a year. But it's also home to the Mojave fringe-toed lizard, which lives in sandy soil particularly dunes dry lake beds and river washes. "The Amargosa river population is especially threatened because of the pounding it's taking from off-road vehicles," said Daniel Patterson, desert ecologist for the Center for Biological Diversity. The center filed a formal petition to list the lizard as threatened or endangered with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Under the federal Endangered Species Act, the service has 90 days to determine if the petition has enough information to trigger a full year-long review of the species. If the more extensive review were to be done, it would determine whether the lizard should to be listed as threatened or endangered. The petition seeks protection only for the population in that immediate area, including an area that stretches west into Death Valley National Park and to Coyote Holes just to the east. The lizard, whose scientific name is Uma scoparia, ranges throughout the desert areas of San Bernardino, Riverside, Los Angeles and Inyo counties. Patterson said the lizard is not doing especially well in those other areas, but the petition was drafted to focus on the population segment that's most clearly at risk, which is allowed under the Endangered Species Act. The area to the west, in Death Valley National Park called Ibex Dunes, is off-limits to off-roaders but people do sometimes enter the area illegally. "It's been a struggle to keep people out of there," said Alan Van Valkenburg, a park ranger at Ibex Dunes. "Mostly they do pretty good, but every so often someone gets in." The lizard has no formal protection but is identified as "sensitive" by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, which operates the Dumont Dunes Off-Highway Vehicle Area. "The lizard does have a broad, broad range," said Doran Sanchez, spokesman for the BLM's desert district office in Moreno Valley. "We'll have to wait and see what the (Fish and Wildlife) service says about the distinct population segment." A separate species, the threatened Coachella Valley fringe-toed lizard, was the subject of one of the first habitat-conservation plans designed to protect the animal but allow some development in the areas east of Palm Springs in Riverside County. If the Mojave lizard were listed as endangered, it's not clear what management changes would have to be made. The off-roading community is still bristling over the closure of 49,300 acres at the Algodones Dunes in Imperial County to protect the threatened Pierson's milkvetch, a plant native to the dunes. The 40 mile-long stretch of dunes is wildly popular, drawing hundreds of thousands of off-road enthusiasts. Any proposal that could lead to limits at Dumont Dunes, which is a wide-open play area, is certain to anger off-roaders. Scott, you're now AWAKE... Sign up for your FoDD membership and sign up for an ASA membership (free) and help the the other 24,500+ members make a difference in keeping the dunes open,,, ALL of them! Join the ASA FYI... the American Sand Association has members in all 50 states and even several countries, they don't all dune just at Glamis, I know, I'm one of them... If your interested in a National OHV organization please consider the BlueRibbon Coalition, about 660,000 members strong. BlueRibbon Coalition Website Edited April 14, 2006 by Sanduners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 (edited) A recent ruling from the Fish & Wildlife Service has some good information on Distinct Population Segments. Looks to me like the FWS was actually paying on this... Friends of Dumont Dunes will make sure they do the same for the Fringe-Toed Lizard. A population segment may be considered discrete if it satisfies either one of the following conditions: (1) Marked separation from other populations of the same taxon resulting from physical, physiological, ecological, or behavioral factors, including genetic discontinuity; or (2) populations delimited by international boundaries within which differences in control of exploitation, management of habitat, conservation status, or regulatory mechanisms exist that are significant in light of 4(a)(1)(D) of the Act. If a population is considered discrete under one or more of the above conditions, its biological and ecological significance is assessed. Measures of significance may include, but are not limited to, the following: (1) Persistence of the discrete population segment in an ecological setting unusual or unique for the taxon; (2) evidence that loss of the discrete population segment would result in a significant gap in the range of the taxon; (3) evidence that the discrete population segment represents the only surviving natural occurrence of the taxon that may be more abundant elsewhere as an introduced population outside its historical range; and (4) evidence the discrete population segment differs markedly from other populations of the taxon in its genetic characteristics.If a population segment is discrete and significant, its evaluation for endangered or threatened status will be based on the Act's definitions of those terms and a review of the factors enumerated in section 4(a). ``Endangered'' means the species is in danger of extinction throughout all or a significant portion of its range. ``Threatened'' means the species is likely to become endangered within the foreseeable future throughout all or a significant portion of its range. The Ninth Circuit's opinion held that we did not arbitrarily find the Arizona pygmy-owl to be discrete because differences in conservation status exist across the international boundary between the United States and Mexico. We argued that in this case the term ``conservation status'' means ``the number of individuals left in the population.'' We found that conservation status differs because there are differences in the number of owls on either side of the border. The court deferred to our interpretation of the term ``conservation status'' and stated, ``We conclude that `conservation status,' as used in the discreteness test, is a term of art that lends itself to interpretation by the FWS'' (CV 00-0903 SRB). The Ninth Circuit's opinion stated that we did not articulate a rational basis for finding that the discrete population is significant to the taxon, but did not actually rule on whether the DPS is significant. Instead the 9th Circuit remanded the decision of significance, and that is the issue which is addressed in this finding. Vicki Edited April 14, 2006 by SailAway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raspadoo Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 "At Death Valley National Park, Uma scoparia could not be located at two of three potential historical sites. Ibex Dunes may represent the only remaining population within the Park." Guess it doesn't help to close down the dunes in order to protect the population. Vicki, Please PM me with any literature you have in hand out form, we will be going out this next weekend (20th-23rd) and I am interested in handing it out. We need to educate and unite on this. Thanks in advance, Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCGYVER Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 The threat is still there. Just a matter of time. They played the same game up in Coral pink, a good portion of those dunes is fenced off for the Tiger Bettles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1223 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 My girls dad is one of the BLM big wigs, and she is inquiring about this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackxclan Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 :angry: i think all the local orgs. are great but what will do the greatest good is a national voice to stand up for sand riders dirt riders rock crawlers people who want to ride on their own property . its not dumont thats at risk its everyone. everywhere. pull together a group that has the power and voice name reconnation as sierra club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BOMB Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Kill that fu@kin lizard now and add it to the list of spieces killed off! I say we all take up arms, pack up, go take over Kelso, see if they can stop hundreds of thousands of angry off-roaders at high speeds tearing up the dunes. Hell they can't /won't stop illegal aliens from marching and stopping traffic! :angry: We need a "destroy the environment" terroist group to balance things out. I really don't care how ignorant this sounds right now; rising gas prices, Iran making nukes, more middle east terrorist threats against the US, and now more and more of this BS, better have a dam good time now-who knows what tomorrow will bring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted April 19, 2006 Author Share Posted April 19, 2006 Vicki, Please PM me with any literature you have in hand out form, we will be going out this next weekend (20th-23rd) and I am interested in handing it out. We need to educate and unite on this. Thanks in advance, Eric I'll get it to you. There was one created for handing out last weekend. I just haven't put it into a pdf yet, but I'll do that today. Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeToXiC1 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 (edited) even better that just flyers we should set up a booth at the local walmart in vegas or henderson and start getting ppl to sign up and collect $ have someone from action or asa there to help out... this is the same kind of stuff that the CDC dose...but they do it all over the us.... they could be in some small town in iowa collecting $. we should even go to college campases....hell we should even go the their office building and collect $ say its for a CDC cause. just get the $ and sign them up for action or asa or FODD we need to shut them down. them lying bastards need to get back in their own yard to have sex with their one damd trees......lizzards or what ever it is this time...... travis Edited April 19, 2006 by DeToXiC1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raspadoo Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I'm thinking we should just figure out where the CBD "big wigs" golf, insted of going to the dunes buy out there tee times for a couple of weeks and they will probabnly never bother Dumont again..... :headbang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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