Don29palms Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 The way I look at it is if it takes a fence to keep the dunes open then so be it. You can't fix stupid. There are alot of people that know they shouldn't be riding in certain spots and they do anyway. The next area that will be closed is The Sperry Wash Trail because of people riding out of bounds. If you don't want a fence then you are going to have to put severe penalties for being caught out of bounds such as vehicle confiscation and high monetary fines. Another solution would be to kill all the tree huggers and Eco-terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kens Colors Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Now Don and I really hate to say this.......... I agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGP Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I too would like to see some CLEARLY MARKED out of bounds markers out at Dumont. I personally have been out in the sperry wash area and have been on a trail and the next thing I know, I was out of bounds. I wasnt intentionally riding out of bounds, and as soon as we realized we were out of bounds we redirected ourselves. And If a fence keeps the dunes open, Put up a damn fence. If raising the fees keep our dunes open, Raise the friggin fees. There are always going to be dumbass flatbillers they will ride out of bounds regardless. Hopefully a fence would slow them down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycoguy Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Although the price is indeed stagering, I'm not so sure this is a completely horrible idea, I rememer my first time at dumont, my buddy and i were riding, and riding, and all the sudden found ourselfs in the midle of some bird sancturary or something, with no boundry markers along the way, this fence might help people unfamiliar with the dunes know the boundries... and if it keeps the greenies at bay...I would say its a decent compromise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntrsandman Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) I would like to think education would help. However, you can't teach common sense. Check out the other threads on idiots riding through people's camps, not cleaning up after themselves, taking over a finger dune, the list can go on and on. I have my opinion on who goes out of bounds an regular basis. Its the same people who ride through camps, don't clean up after themselves, etc. The majority of regulars and responsible adults know where to or not to ride, or seek out the info. If they do wander out of bounds, they realize it and make it back to "in bounds". A fence is more likely to be an effective solution to the problem. I am fully against the fence. I like the look of the wide open desert. Save for a few out of bounds signs that I don't ignore. But if a fence is gonna keep DD open, then so be it. The idiots will find something else to piss off the BLM. Edited August 30, 2007 by ntrsandman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDuner Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 The letter says,......."areas of critical environmental concern". :mic: It's the middle of BFE!!!!!!!!!!!! How is this a area of critical environmental concern? Are they going to find a bush that will cure all world sickness? Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDuner Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I will build the fence for $400,000 and save them serious money, and I will still make $250,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 How about a fence around camp to keep unwanted peeps out? :shocked2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorMike Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 This is good to know, i cant comment on weather it needs a fence or not, but having gone to the dunes a few times before i didnt know that there was a boundry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duniemonkie Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I see a lot of boundry markers at the edges of Dumont that I frequent; the markers are those tall plastic sticks that clearly tell you to turn around. If there were more of these markers would everyone be satisfied? Perhaps we need to design a marker that is more noticeable? I'd say that so long as the fence doesn't effect the wilderness (animal movement or what have you) then toss it up! There is no way to get everyone to agree to not go past any boundry. Like ntrsandman said, people already take over the finger dune, ride through camps, and leave their trash everywhere. Vicki, I applaud your patience and diplomacy. See you @ SSSS!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadracer Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I see a lot of boundry markers at the edges of Dumont that I frequent; the markers are those tall plastic sticks that clearly tell you to turn around. If there were more of these markers would everyone be satisfied? Perhaps we need to design a marker that is more noticeable? I'd say that so long as the fence doesn't effect the wilderness (animal movement or what have you) then toss it up! There is no way to get everyone to agree to not go past any boundry. Like ntrsandman said, people already take over the finger dune, ride through camps, and leave their trash everywhere. Vicki, I applaud your patience and diplomacy. See you @ SSSS!! :shocked2: well put Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot bob Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 how about somthing different lets REOPOEN . theres nothing out there thats criticle. nothing out there is going to destroy the earth. cause a species to extinct. destroy an eco system . spend a half a million dollars to protect fuggin weeds. this is complete and total crap. this is what i was talking about in that one post of mine. attack there hold on that area . wasting money to protect weeds :shocked2: open it up and let us use it. its public lands let it be public lovely thought, put the dunes in a cage .how scenic. so we can sit back like utter and complete morons and say gee we sure are protecting those pretty weeds . to bad we cant get even a nice picture of the fuggin things cause of a fence. open the land and spend the money tp pay our leos and not have to raise fees as fast. or in the real world use the money to prove that there is no harm to a bunch of weeds and open it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandemon Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 The "fence" that the BLM is talking about is called Post and Cable, so the only thing it will do is keep people from driving out of the open areas :shocked2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Those closures, long-existent, are not in place to protect 'weeds' but really the fact is, it really doesn't matter at this point why they are there. Could they be removed? If someone has the time and money to fight Congress, I suppose it could be tried. I have neither the time or money to put into something that until very recently, has not had a detrimental effect on Dumont Dune recreation. Now that it is, solutions must be found. Dumont used to be an area focused only on sand. With the influx of vehicles that can handle varied environments Dumont goers are venturing beyond the sand and more into the dirt, completely unaware that where they are venturing has been closed to off-road use for a long time. Lack of education, lack of markers, whatever the reason, the problem now bleeds into the entire area and our choices are dwindling. Although those closures may have no obvious value to the casual rider, protecting our existing riding areas from additional closures most certainly does have tremendous value to all riders. We can take proactive measures now to protect what we have or take the chance that this small problem grows large enough to close it all. If those incursions continue, those closed areas will grow and our riding areas will shrink. I've asked this before... NO FENCES is a fine stance, but please provide alternatives to something equally effective. VickiW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegasdunenut Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 The fence is just another way for the damn environmentalists and tree huggers to put another restriction on us. A half million dollar fence is not going to stop idiots from going where they aren't supposed to. They need to put signs everywhere you are not supposed to ride. So many signs that a blind person could know they weren't supposed to be there. Then leave it up to the fine up standing members of the duning community to enforce it. :Danielle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I seem to be having trouble getting something across here... These are not new closures. These are very old boundaries that have caused us relatively few problems until recently. This is not some conspiracy by the anti-access groups. The truth of this matter is, had the bad guys wanted to use these incursions against us they would have done so already. They have not. Instead, the groups that are most interested in us respecting those boundaries have asked the recreation community for help in solving the problem. This is a very rare opportunity to actually fix something before it is too far gone for anyone's use. VickiW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandBox_Kid Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I feel they could either fix/update the current signage to make it more visible, or just put up the fence. Like others have said if it means preserving our riding area then do it. A boundary map would also be fantastic. I'm glad to hear it is already in the works. :Danielle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I agree that the boundary markers need to be more visible and more of them are needed. I really don't see too many people out there though. You need knobbies to go out there anyways and most riders run paddles. If the fence helps, so be it I guess. I don't see how it will really affect our area that we use at the dunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Mike Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Are there any current maps showing these boundries. I have never seen a sign, but maybe that is because I stay in the dunes mostly. There is a rod that goes from the North Pole to the north side of the camp grounds that I have been on a few times. I have never seen a sign out there but if I was informed to not go out there I wouldn't. I agree with Don that if there is fence put up then there should be severe penalties if it is crossed. Some people just don't care about rules for whatever reason and they will always be our downfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsky70 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 That's alot of money to be putting up a fence we don't really need. Education is one tool, with more markers around all the area's out of bounds and that map to pass out when people enter as well, with the OOB area's clearly marked. Most go to enjoy the dunes and we know, if they just don't care, there not going to abide by any rules and do whatever they want. If caught, they need some stiff fines, impound the vehicle's there riding at the time. Maybe if this happens a little more, the word will get out alot quicker on what not to do. But overall, if this fails then there's no choice but the fence and I would go along with that to save what we have.....SF Woody :Danielle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Anyone who knows me knows how much I hate fencing of any kind. I don't want it in my desert or in my riding areas. And I don't want this fencing either. But I don't want additional closures even worse than I hate fencing. This fencing is around a previously unused area, an area that is getting more use only because the range of users is spreading. I absolutely believe that if people know they shouldn't be there, the majority will stay out and I can personally vouch for the lack of clear signage in the area. Maybe we need to be looking at a two-fold solution. The grant process is all up in the air right now anyway and even if they do get it, it's not like it's immediately accessible. Maybe we need to push the BLM for more signs short of actual fencing and a beefed up education plan, with the fencing as a Plan B. I will say that's only if we have the luxury of that kind of leeway. If the problem has already become such an issue that a lawsuit is imminent, we may be forced to give in to the fencing. VickiW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don29palms Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) I think it is definitely the consensus that nobody wants fencing put up. I agree that if it's possible to add additional signs and have an education process before fencing is put up it should be tried to see what happens. But there is always a but. Signs and education cost money and the cost of materials goes up everyday. I would hate to see ending up spending twice as much to do the same thing in the long run. The people that are riding in the closed areas are very few but they are spoiling it for everybody. I believe in the long run that if they want a fence they are going to get a fence or worse being complete closure. Barefoot Bob we feel your pain brother but you really don't understand what it takes to reopen areas that have been designated wilderness by congress. Yes it is still public land that you can look at and walk on all you want but don't think about doing anything more than that. Edited August 31, 2007 by Don29palms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quad~dizzle Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 or how about putting up gun towers like a prison yard and shoot anyone who crosses the boundry line i bet the message will get out real fast! i call first watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 To add fuel to the fire this just the first request for fencing grants. They plan to increase it to 14 miles as the availability to get the grants comes available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot bob Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 in my opinion this is utter and complete crap! why bother to join fodd , corva , asa , naacp or any other abbreviations i can think of. why so we can do what ?? they dont ban together we all lose i dont understand land closures ok . but i do know that if these little organizations do not start trying to stand together it will be one loss after another. i do know that the sierra club gets land closed on a whim. i understand by reading these posts that that land has been closed for so long nobody even knows why. which means nobodies trying to even find out what options are out there. these organazations all meet at various meetings including the trt meetings anyone ever thought of looking into what it would take?? how bout asking the feds to go back and and reexamin the reasons for the closings. are they still necessary?? were they ever necessary. why is it the sierra club can cause and or start the blm looking into endangered matters its not on there dime when the blm or a related government entity. looks to see if there case holds merit. theres an entire branch of government dedicated to enviromentle study. theres more enthusiats and less places to play. it fries my a$$ that my taxes pay for this weed protection bs. but i have to pay addl to go camp. forested land i can agree with its a habitat of wild life and naturale recourses but not a desert, not weeds, im sorry i dont see it. and if they found 1 inth of useable plutoniam that place would be tore to shreds. education?? lets educate people on the wastefull bs of closing these lands on a whim from people like the sierra club. or the people they financially back like boxer and fienstien. i really wonder how many people vote for either one of them and then get im there buggy and go for a ride or there quad. plus effen hypocrits like honda usa give money to th sierra club and sell us dirt bikes and quads all of them this was a waste of typing but dammit if it dont make me mad !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.